Unparallel shoes / Five Ten

that guy named seb wrote: What makes you think climbings popularity will "die down". A quick look at the trend of the last 20 years will tell you climbing is only getting more and more popular with forecasts of lots of growth over the next 10.

Especially given it's inclusion in the olympics; climbing popularity is about to explode.

Climbing popularity won’t be dying down anytime soon. The expansion of climbing gyms over the past 5 years and the Olympics are making climbing more popular & accesible to everyone. I feel indifferent about that, but with my personal opinion aside. The climbing market is growing allowing opportunities for big companies like Adidas to come in. Hopefully that doesn’t push smaller independent companies out and discourage new ones from appearing. 

So is the Vega the same as the Team? What is the Rise Zero equivalent to?

I've been speculating the same Karsten. The Vega has a Jet 7 look to it. Up Rise has a interesting look that I can't pin down to any previous models. Regulus looks like a Team/V10 hybrid. The Leopard=Team XVI? I like the fast lacing system on the UP Lace for sure. I'm looking forward to the opening of Flowstone and the chance to give some of these shoes a test drive.

KyleMFSpurgeon wrote: Sang Lee also designed the So I’ll shoes (or some of them?). 

Not quite. He manufactured and development consulted on them. 

KyleMFSpurgeon wrote: Regulus-Hiangle
Vega- team
Leopard- VXI

I think the up Zero is a new model. I think it is important to keep in mind that not EVERY product they have has to be a remake of an old 5.10 model, and it’s probably a dangerous game to act like they are. Sang Lee also designed the So I’ll shoes (or some of them?). The volumes and rubber are pretty different, and clearly some new designs are in play.. which means that just because you lone the hiangle, doesn’t mean you’ll love the Regulus. And just because ou hated the team, doesn’t mean the Vega is trash.

I've tried the Regulus and the Vega now, and while the design is clearly inspired by the Hiangle, the Regulus, even in the non LV model, has a narrower toe box than the Hiangle, which caused me to return them and try the Vega, which has a wider toe box. The original Hiangles were pretty much the perfect shoe for my foot, and the Vega fits me just as well, same size and everything (US 8). I can't even imagine how slim the Regulus LVs are.

Here's my thoughts:

Regulus: Hiangle women's (LV)
Vega: Jet 7 / Hiangle men's
Leopard: Team / VXI

that guy named seb wrote: What makes you think climbings popularity will "die down". A quick look at the trend of the last 20 years will tell you climbing is only getting more and more popular with forecasts of lots of growth over the next 10.

Because that is how trends work? Remember the skatepark/BMX track influx of the 90’s-00’s and skateboarders/BMX was everywhere? One generation grows older and a new trend picks up. Not saying it will drop super low, but it won’t self sustain its growth forever. 

Nike/Vans basically drove all independent shoes out of BMX and a lot from skating. They took on the best atheletes, made deals with companies toget the best marketing on their sites, filled big box stores, can produce items for a fraction of the cost, etc.
The way gyms are going up, business is funneling through bigger companies instead of small, etc. that was the last 20 years in BMX. Surfing had a similar issue as well once Volcom/Billabong/Etc started being sold in larger stores and owned by corporations that don’t care about surfing. 
Imagine rolling into Marshall’s/Ross and they have climbing shoes marked down to $10 because last seasons models. You can already see that with outdoor clothing there. 

PosiDave wrote:

Because that is how trends work? Remember the skatepark/BMX track influx of the 90’s-00’s and skateboarders/BMX was everywhere? One generation grows older and a new trend picks up. Not saying it will drop super low, but it won’t self sustain its growth forever. 

Nike/Vans basically drove all independent shoes out of BMX and a lot from skating. They took on the best atheletes, made deals with companies toget the best marketing on their sites, filled big box stores, can produce items for a fraction of the cost, etc.
The way gyms are going up, business is funneling through bigger companies instead of small, etc. that was the last 20 years in BMX. Surfing had a similar issue as well once Volcom/Billabong/Etc started being sold in larger stores and owned by corporations that don’t care about surfing. 
Imagine rolling into Marshall’s/Ross and they have climbing shoes marked down to $10 because last seasons models. You can already see that with outdoor clothing there. 

You say this but then there are plenty sports where it hasn't happened, skiing and running are two sports that are much bigger than climbing and have dozens of brands big and small.

Those small companies in skiing and running may just be owned by a huge umbrella company. Which I find unfortunate, but that's how it usually works.

Skateboarding is still huge (I mean, it must be, right?), although it used to be much more cyclical. More kids skateboard than play little league. It's also in the Olympics.

Nike made a huge push into skateboarding shoes (and accessories) in the 90's, but also got pushback by small brands,

Funnily, Adidas made skateboard shoes way back in the 90's, and they were pretty awesome. They didn't get that same flack. I think Nike in skateboarding is here to stay, though, so the little companies lost. The 90's were a weird time - the X-Games just started and made things really weird. Come to think of it, the first time I saw a pro climber was at the second X-Games (or, "Extreme Games", as they called it), where there was a climbing comp. I was stoked.

I would never have thought these sports would be in the Olympics. It just seemed like a cash in by ESPN to capitalize whatever lens they wanted to filter the youth culture of the time. They even had speed climbing,

OK, back to defending my lawn,

Does anyone know about the sizing of them yet or are they pretty much the same sizing as fiveten?

I think it’s all over the place in regards to sizing. The regulus felt about half a size smaller than a hiangle and the Sirius felt a little bigger than the same sized dragon. The Sirius actually felt more like a old style quantum with a slightly wider toe box than a dragon

Here are pics of a brand new dragon vs Sirius in the same street shoe size. 

The sirius looks way bigger in the bottom photo, but almost similar in size in the top two.

so weird

amarius wrote: From UnParallel: The New Climbing Shoes That Look Like Old Five Ten Favorites

There is more in the article

Article has disappeared from climbing.com  Still available in Google cache

baldclimber wrote:

Article has disappeared from climbing.com  Still available in Google cache

Pulled from the presses?! The plot thickens...

Alexander Stathis wrote: I've heard all the same rumors. The whole thing sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen. Also, their branding is so bad it's almost offensive. 

From what I have been told, these guys are the individuals who had the original design for five ten. I would be curious to see how a lawsuit would go down, but my guess is that the people at UP have done their homework as they have all been in the industry for years, maybe decades.

Also I agree with their branding on the non-climbing shoes, but I freakin love the design and branding of the climbing shoes, you hardly even see any branding!

It doesn't matter how long they've done anything for, but how good of lawyers they can afford.

It's pretty crazy. You've got the warehouse, tooling, patterns, biz connections, and former employees. Starting another shoe company seems obvious. Why make obvious replicas - and so many, is beyond me, though.

Are the 5.10 shoe designs patented? Even if not, I wouldn't want to face litigation from Adidas. The only thing Adidas risk is perceived ill will from the climbing community, which is not a huge part of their portfolio.

5.10 seem like nice shoes, I've never had a problem with Adidas as a multinational conglomerate juggernaut. Shoes just don't fit me all that well. These new ones from UP look for the most part even narrower, so I'm out.

Julian H wrote:

Vibram, does not make the rubber. Companies like Goodyear makes the rubber. 

Sure looks like Vibram is making the rubber, 

FWIW, Adidas lifted the game in skate shoes. Believe it or not they have good quality products often at a lower price point than other athletic brands and pretty good technical materials.

They are also releasing new shoes this spring that are very similar or iterations off of old designs.

Karsten Walker wrote: It doesn't matter how long they've done anything for, but how good of lawyers they can afford.

And it doesn’t matter how good your lawyers are if you’ve crossed your T’s and dotted your I’s.....my point is that you really don’t think that these individuals didn’t think about being sued/litigation prior to releasing their products?