Worst advice beginners get told

“Don’t stretch: it makes you weak.”

Jake Jones wrote:

This has not been my experience.  But I think we're talking about two different things.  I'm mostly referring to rappel vs. lower, not rappel vs. walk off.  The vast majority of climbers I've seen visiting single pitch areas equipped with fixed gear that would work for either rappelling or lowering, seem to be rappelling.  When asked, most of them say some variation of "the person that taught me said that rappelling saves the wear on fixed gear".  This subject has been hashed and rehashed ad nauseum in these forums, so I'll try not to go into it further.  It's rare to see someone climbing a steep sport route, then trying to clean it on the way down- while rappelling, but I have actually seen it multiple times.  As for the walk off vs. the rappel, that's entirely dependent upon the terrain and circumstances, IMO.

yes, exactly this, beginners are always told to always rap to save wear on anchors (usually by other beginners who heard it from other beginners...).  In single pitch cragging situations lowering needs to be the standard practice.

I was always under the impression that unless you know the specific ethic of an area, you should err the side of less wear and rappel. I know lowering is encouraged in the Red, for example, and that rappelling is encouraged in Joshua Tree. Obviously lowering is better if you're a new climber and unsure of how to rappel. Not worth putting yourself in jeopardy just to save less than half a millimeter of wear on steel fixed gear. 

Off topic a bit, but on the subject of autoblocking belay devices people are mentioning I have recently come to believe the Revo is the best new climber belay device.   It teaches good belay habits because you can't just let go of the rope without letting your climber take a ride but it provides a backup in case they do a dumb dumb.  It also teaches normal atc style belaying.    I still prefer a gri gri for myself when not on doubles but am impressed with it as a teaching tool.

Marc801 C wrote:

The reason for telling a beginner to tie a backup knot on a fig 8 is to insure they've left enough of a tail, not to secure the fig 8.

This is like when the big boss says people need to be there 15 mins early, then a secondary boss says people need to be there 15 mins earlier than that and it cascades down the CoC until suddenly people are showing up an hour early and just standing around because they only really needed to be there 15 minutes early!

The figure 8 knot does not roll. As BD QC has shown, even a 3/4 figure 8 knot will hold. Having a 6 in tail isn't part of the "properly tied knot" it IS the backup that ensures the knot is tied correctly (which yes can be viewed as part of the properly tied knot, don't nitpick me). Someone else said that the backup was just part of "good gym practice" but it's not even that, just an overbuilt system. I can see the evolution now.

"leave a 6 in tail to make an easy check that you finished your knot." - "if you have extra tail you can tie an overhand to manage the slack." - "rather than take the time to retie-the knot so you only have a little bit of slack, just intentionally tie with a bunch of slack and tie an overhand." and then some asshole referred to it as a backup knot and suddenly "ALWAYS TIE A BACKUP KNOT OR YOU WILL DIE"

And I do think this is kinda important. I've seen people freaked about not having enough tail who leave a three friggin foot tail. Then their "backup knot" is by their face and I have actually seen someone clip below their backup knot as a result. So yes, teach people that they do not need a backup knot because... ya know... they don't.

Buddy checks are way more important, as well as a self check ritual, imo.

Alec Harbison wrote: “Fit your shoes as tight as possible”

I stopped at this post and thought it’s the best. Then I went on and made sure. Yup, checks out. Besides the post about the malingering Mr Burch,  of course, cuz that shiz is real, yo.

I’ll never forget the geisha-like suffering I needlessly inflicted on myself for those first pair of climbing shoes. Or the attendant foot funk, for that matter. You don’t develop solid footwork when you don’t even want to weight your knuckled up, throbbing toes.

As far as the backup knot debate, I have a question: is a double fisherman’s knot actually a BACKUP?  In other words, let’s say somebody somehow screwed up the 8 but tied a “backup” knot, would the overall system hold?

Ted Pinson wrote: As far as the backup knot debate, I have a question: is a double fisherman’s knot actually a BACKUP?  In other words, let’s say somebody somehow screwed up the 8 but tied a “backup” knot, would the overall system hold?

I’d assume yes, I know that rope access techs routinely use the double fish or barrel knot to attach their carabiners to the tethers. They spend a lot of time hanging solely on these ‘back up knots’

Theirs will be well dressed and tightened before being weighted, where as a back up version would kinda be a crapshoot as to if it actually snugged tight correctly in a fall...

Ted Pinson wrote: As far as the backup knot debate, I have a question: is a double fisherman’s knot actually a BACKUP?  In other words, let’s say somebody somehow screwed up the 8 but tied a “backup” knot, would the overall system hold?

Well, would the knot shown here (illustration fig 9) hold? http://climbaz.com/chouinard72/graphics/page27.JPG

Wouldn't pretty much the same thing happen?

kendallt wrote:

I'll tether myself at a hanging belay with a single clove hitch, but I would never consider leading a climb with a single clove hitch as my knot.

It's actually not that uncommon in a roped soloing context, and in fact a single clove is exactly what you are tied into when using a silent partner.

You need 3 bomber pieces to make a solid anchor. 

Erroneous Publicus wrote: You need 3 bomber pieces to make a solid anchor. 

give me back my dog

"Just lieback it"

People seem to be told that they should start training on a fingerboard way too early.  I've heard trainers say that you really shouldn't be touching a fingerboard until you're in the V7/V8 range, otherwise you are more likely to hurt yourself and set yourself back than improve.  

"Don't belay or rappel on your belay loop!  Clip the locking biner to the tie-in points; it's stronger and safer."
So, every manufacturer that puts belay loops on almost all of their harness models is wrong?  Or they make belay loops because they're inferior?    

I overheard someone say once that you should use lockers on both ends of your quickdraws when leading sport because it's safer.

Fritz Nuffer wrote: I overheard someone say once that you should use lockers on both ends of your quickdraws when leading sport because it's safer.

Made me think of these ultra safety guys I saw, they would use this: These guys at Frenchman were transitioning to a TR on a 5.5 and the process took about 20-25 minutes. Guy led the sport route and PAS'd to a bolt, put a QD on to link the bolts, put up a quad, put QD's from the quad to his harness, removed his PAS and QD linking the bolts, put lockers on the quad, put his rope on the quad, removed the draws, talked to his belayer about how he would clean the non-wandering route, and was lowered very slow. 

Hobo Greg wrote:

They pretty much are. Name one pro climber who currently uses em. Name one.

Most Pros aren’t climbing sub 5.7ish either. 

More cowbell!!

Ted Pinson wrote: As far as the backup knot debate, I have a question: is a double fisherman’s knot actually a BACKUP?  In other words, let’s say somebody somehow screwed up the 8 but tied a “backup” knot, would the overall system hold?

yes it would. The barrel knot would cinch down really tight and it would become atomically welded to your tie in points after you whip on it. It'll certainly catch you, but you better hope to god it doesn't catch your manhood in the process. Although you may have to cut your rope and/or harness to get the thing untied after a whip.