New Guy Technique Drills...

Let me start with saying this is not some back door brag post - I just need some ideas/help but need to explain where I am at.

I was a gymnast for 15 +/- years (note; I am also 6'2, and 29 years old) and recently went rock climbing.  I am on my first week (day 5 was yesterday) and I can do 5.9s no problem and can do 5.10's/5.11's but they are much more difficult. It appears this is the step up where solid technique/footwork is needed and "winging it" is becoming obsolete. I know how to flag, heel hook, toe hook, and have superb body awareness (full twisting double back in gymnastics teaches that haha) I will climb and then watch someone else go up and they will do a heel hook or just a move I had not even thought about doing. I try to ask them why they chose that move as opposed to something else and everyone is very friendly and helpful with it but I am still having difficulty reading the route and knowing what moves I need in what specific area. Due to my athletic background, I can do the moves I see - just find I do not know about them or even if I do, do not know when to execute them. As an example - on a sloper 5.11 a girl did some like half heel hook and just bent herself in a way I never considered and it worked beautifully - I just never even would have thought of that move. My climbing looks rather unorthodox when it comes to a hard crux but it is harder than it should be. I will press something or use strength thinking it is my only option - then a 12 year old girl will make that crux look like an afternoon walk in the park - so clearly I am not doing it the easiest way or the way it was designed.
I did one handed V1's yesterday for 3 hours in the bouldering area because it focuses foot placement, balance, and creativity (some good climber suggested it). I also did the 5.6's one handed because it taught muscular endurance, technique, and foot skills. You can't just muscle your way up with one hand.

I would love to get a list of drills or anything to help the progression. I have all the hand/core/shoulder strength already. I have also watched just about every youtube video out there, valley uprising, reel rock series, and anything I could get my hands on just to watch and pick up on little things.

(also to note: this is also indoor climbs to take the ratings with a grain of salt - but it gives you an idea of where I am currently at)

Here are a few suggestions from the Rock Climber’s Training Manual by the Anderson Brothers. It’s an excellent book which I would recommend. You probably won’t be doing a lot of focused training in the your first year or two, but I found it helpful to read and consider during my beginner years of “just climbing”. These technique drills can be helpful at the beginner level, and are a good way to focus your gym time.

[Admin note: I have removed the photos from the book that appear to be a copyright violation. --Nick]

Hell ya! Thanks!

Out of curiosity - why wouldn't I be doing a lot of focused training? Is that not the best way to go about getting better?

Go out with good climbers and watch their technique.. i think watching and replicating is somewhat easier if youre athletically aware of your body and getting the fine tweaks onsite from that person teaching. That and finger strength. Youre probably able to eat up sloping holds no prob but if you go to areas with lots of crimps (most classic areas in the world) you better get your crimp hand strong. Just climb, youll transition well. Boulder, sport, trad, do it all. Being a good rock climber is just as much smarts as it is strength... 

Dirty30 Dirty30 wrote: Hell ya! Thanks!

Out of curiosity - why wouldn't I be doing a lot of focused training? Is that not the best way to go about getting better?

I meant that you won’t be doing 75% of what the book outlines in terms of power and strength training as a beginner. Hangboarding and campusing are recommended for intermediate/advanced climbers whose fingers have had a chance to adapt to the heavy stress.

There is definitely some good info in the book for beginner climbers, and Anderson brothers even recommend hangboarding with a pulley system for beginners. Some other coaches disagree, saying if you can’t do a body weight hang, you’re not ready to hang board and should just focus on climbing and gaining technique, tendon strength, and forearm capillarity.

Dirty30 Dirty30 wrote: Let me start with saying this is not some back door brag post - I just need some ideas/help but need to explain where I am at.

I was a gymnast for 15 +/- years (note; I am also 6'2, and 29 years old) and recently went rock climbing.  I am on my first week (day 5 was yesterday) and I can do 5.9s no problem and can do 5.10's/5.11's but they are much more difficult. It appears this is the step up where solid technique/footwork is needed and "winging it" is becoming obsolete. I know how to flag, heel hook, toe hook, and have superb body awareness (full twisting double back in gymnastics teaches that haha) I will climb and then watch someone else go up and they will do a heel hook or just a move I had not even thought about doing. I try to ask them why they chose that move as opposed to something else and everyone is very friendly and helpful with it but I am still having difficulty reading the route and knowing what moves I need in what specific area. Due to my athletic background, I can do the moves I see - just find I do not know about them or even if I do, do not know when to execute them. As an example - on a sloper 5.11 a girl did some like half heel hook and just bent herself in a way I never considered and it worked beautifully - I just never even would have thought of that move. My climbing looks rather unorthodox when it comes to a hard crux but it is harder than it should be. I will press something or use strength thinking it is my only option - then a 12 year old girl will make that crux look like an afternoon walk in the park - so clearly I am not doing it the easiest way or the way it was designed.
I did one handed V1's yesterday for 3 hours in the bouldering area because it focuses foot placement, balance, and creativity (some good climber suggested it). I also did the 5.6's one handed because it taught muscular endurance, technique, and foot skills. You can't just muscle your way up with one hand.

I would love to get a list of drills or anything to help the progression. I have all the hand/core/shoulder strength already. I have also watched just about every youtube video out there, valley uprising, reel rock series, and anything I could get my hands on just to watch and pick up on little things.

(also to note: this is also indoor climbs to take the ratings with a grain of salt - but it gives you an idea of where I am currently at)

It sounds like your problem is just having an awareness of types of climbing movement that you may have never seen, coupled with not knowing the best times to employ the various types of moves that you know or have seen.  This isn't really something that you can just pick up out of the blue, you learn this by observing other climbers, and by getting a lot of mileage on the rock so that you can start to feel what moves need to be done where to make the climbing more efficient.  Unfortunately, there really isn't a way to shortcut this process.  The fact that you come from a gymnastics background is probably about the biggest and best shortcut that you could possibly have, but now you just need to climb a lot to be able to get an understanding of when to do what.  Good luck and have fun!

stop comparing yourself to 12 year old girls ;)

they don't weigh anything.  their fingers are pencil thin.

they climb in a different universe.

For resources, the Self Coached Climber is an excellent book, as is the Neil Gresham Masterclass series on yt. A lot of what you're talking about relates to engrams, the neural pathways that are created by executing a novel movement. The bigger your "vocabulary" of engrams, the easier to intuit which move is appropriate given the scenario. The recommended resources will help expand your understanding of what moves are possible, and reinforcing these via practice is crucial. Anderson brothers' opinion on learning moves at varying levels of intensity is also valuable.

Mileage is going to be your best friend for you tendons to catch up to your strength. You don't want to over do it in the beginning and create injuries later for yourself. Anderson brother's book is awesome.

If you are fishing for technique/drill that you might be looking for is; buy little bear repellant bells and put them on your shoes and try to climb as silent as possible - it will work very intentional/precise footwork.

+1 for Neil Greisham series it's pretty good. People have lots of vids about the physical aspect of training, but he breaks down the movements really well from a technical perspective.

If you have a system board or something similar, I would suggest to try something like that:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJhlv-QXtf4

I've started doing a few similar drills - working on deadpoints mostly, but you could do lock-offs or whatever else.

Main guidelines I'm following at the moment:

• Focus & repetitions really help. Should be one type of move (say deadpoints, lock off, dynos...).
• Typically I do something like:
  • 3-4 repetitions on the same side, then alternate side
  • It's okay to change one thing from one repetition to the other (say different foot placement). But the idea is to make things as comparable as possible, so I would avoid changing gripping style and footholds, or changing both feet at once, etc.
  • This isn't supposed to a particularly hard exercise physical - it's a technical drill. You should aim for perfect execution while being at full form. Take rest as needed to feel fresh for your next attempt. If it still feels hard physically you're trying something too hard, take it down a notch.
• Start easy, then progressively do harder moves. Like really easy, so that you can execute the first ones perfectly every time.
• Warm-up well. Includes fingers, but shoulders as well. Don't do it when you're pumped out of your mind after a hard climbing session.
• The point is not to do the hardest/longest reach possible. It's to execute as well as you can, identify what you're doing that's not optimal and try to get closer to perfect execution.

How to adapt for difficulty:

• Use shittier starting holds. Or use them differently - on the vid those are good pinches but I'm using them as sidepulls.
• Use shittier feet position (just 1 foot instead of 2, or force yourself to start with high/low feet etc.)
• Make longer reach

For example in my session there, I wasn't bringing my leg far enough back, which made for a longer swing. Possibly I was launching too close to the wall too - hips close to wall is usually good but in that position I think it makes you swing backward a bit more.

If you can I'd recommend recording it. It really helps to compare between sessions (I did it again more recently and was able to see that the swing was much less the 2nd session for the same starting holds).

With your gymnastic background, you must have incredible body awareness - I'm sure you'll be able to pick up the details that are making the moves feel needlessly hard much faster than the average guy.

I sometimes do the same with boulder problems too. Something about onsight-level. Repeat 3-4 times in a row, taking rest for a fresh attempt every time. Ideally film it too. The goal is to have the last attempts feel easier than the first ones, even if you're a little more tired. And again repeat the same problem multiple times in a row - it is not the same doing 4 attempts (with rests) in a row compared to spreading thsoe 4 attempts over lots of other problems...

There's a ultra classic instructional DVD available that would be well worth 58 minutes of your time. It's probably streaming somewhere too. This is Doug Robinson's "Moving Over Stone"  It's more than instructional...it's an introduction to the culture of climbing and some of the great climbers who made it so.

https://squareup.com/market/MovingOverStone/item/moving-over-stone

Go climbing in the great outdoors.

Be kind to your tendons!

It really takes some time climbing on different types of stone before one begins to “see” what to do. And remember this, gym climbing is pretty much two dimensional, outdoors it’s all in three dimensions.

Remember to have fun climbing. 

Climb, climb, and climb!  The best way to learn is to climb consistently and you’ll learn what your body needs to do. Also climb outside as much as possible and your technique and strength will improve much faster than in the gym.

Since you already have a good base of strength and fitness, you are correct in thinking you need to work technique. I'm not sure that technique drills are exactly what you need so much as more mileage on the rock. Watch how better climbers do things. Try hard routes that force you to develop the technique to match your existing strength. Try easier routes focusing on perfect style. Climb routes multiple times trying to get the movements wired so that you move as efficiently and effortlessly as possible. What are your goals? If you are interested in climbing outside, try to do so as much as possible. You'll find that translating your indoor skills to the outdoors is another leap in itself. Ignore the advice about comparing yourself to 12 year old girls. This is exactly what you want to do! Watch the way more skilled climbers who might be weaker than you do things. The standard advice is to not start climbing specific hangboarding or campus boarding training until you have a year or two of climbing under your belt. I'm not sure how much gymnastics strength translates to the weird tweaky finger strength required by some types of climbing. Just be careful that you are the connective tissue in your fingers and arms a chance to catch up with any strength gains you are making. My bet is your shoulders and maybe elbows are already going to be used to the sorts of loads climbing puts on them. But if you start climbing crimpy routes or crack climbing, I am sure you will work some muscles more and differently than they are used to from gymnastics. The Self Coached Climber by Hague and Hunter and The Crack Climber's Technique Manual by Pease are some of the best movement and technique specific resources out there.

Good luck!

Mileage is great I agree - but blind mileage won't bring you as much... I do think there's a value in focusing on some specific aspects, or having some sort of structure, while doing it as oppose to just "be on the rock".

Dang! Thanks everyone for all the help and responses.

I am in Florida so there is no outdoor climbing here (other than the occasional sand dune haha) so I am stuck to indoor unless I travel - but I can't justify travel because I am still very new at this. I have discovered, the V1's and V2s one handed make you really think about the route as you have to approach it differently than with two hands. That has been helping my "creativity" a bit. I do find I have trouble on the very edgy routes. Those little notches you can barely put a dime on. Whew those are impossible haha any other hold is pretty easy, even the tiny little crimps and pinches.

I noticed the tips of my fingers. The a4 area tendons are a bit sore so have been trying to limit time and take rest/recovery days.

My goal is to eventually do lead climbing but those are longer routes and larger falls and the routes in the gym are more technical than the top rope routes. I figure I will just try to climb every route they have up to a 5.10 and work technique and moves and movements and then work a project 5.10+ or 5.11 for the "pushing myself" factor. 

The self coached climber is a great book.  IMO

Dirty30 Dirty30 wrote: Dang! Thanks everyone for all the help and responses.

I am in Florida so there is no outdoor climbing here (other than the occasional sand dune haha) so I am stuck to indoor unless I travel - but I can't justify travel because I am still very new at this. I have discovered, the V1's and V2s one handed make you really think about the route as you have to approach it differently than with two hands. That has been helping my "creativity" a bit. I do find I have trouble on the very edgy routes. Those little notches you can barely put a dime on. Whew those are impossible haha any other hold is pretty easy, even the tiny little crimps and pinches.

I noticed the tips of my fingers. The a4 area tendons are a bit sore so have been trying to limit time and take rest/recovery days.

My goal is to eventually do lead climbing but those are longer routes and larger falls and the routes in the gym are more technical than the top rope routes. I figure I will just try to climb every route they have up to a 5.10 and work technique and moves and movements and then work a project 5.10+ or 5.11 for the "pushing myself" factor. 

I don't think one handed drills are good for beginners because it emphasizes power and dynamic movements rather than static, controlled movements. And it emphasizes contact strength over static endurance (the latter is far more important). One advice I find very useful for beginners is to emphasize the abundance of foot movement - on average you should move your feet 3 times per each hand movement. Also twist lock drills on steep but juggy walls can be helpful for finding the right body positions.

Xi Yin wrote:

I don't think one handed drills are good for beginners because it emphasizes power and dynamic movements rather than static, controlled movements. And it emphasizes contact strength over static endurance (the latter is far more important). One advice I find very useful for beginners is to emphasize the abundance of foot movement - on average you should move your feet 3 times per each hand movement. Also twist lock drills on steep but juggy walls can be helpful for finding the right body positions.

I completely agree, one handed climbing is not at all representative of real climbing, and it will not help to find correct body positions in any way.  There are certainly times when you want to climb dynamically to conserve energy, but it is much more important to know how to move your body into positions that require the least energy, especially as a beginner.

Overall, good advice here. The only comment above I would dispute: "stop comparing yourself to 12 year old girls ;)". Kids have great movement, and they are efficient. Strength, fitness, flexibility and technique are resources, but the point is to go up. You'll learn the most by watching women and kids, who don't have the upper body strength to squander.

Xi Yin wrote:

I don't think one handed drills are good for beginners because it emphasizes power and dynamic movements rather than static, controlled movements. And it emphasizes contact strength over static endurance (the latter is far more important). One advice I find very useful for beginners is to emphasize the abundance of foot movement - on average you should move your feet 3 times per each hand movement. Also twist lock drills on steep but juggy walls can be helpful for finding the right body positions.

Totally agree. Learning to climb like this in the gym will hose you when you get outside. While youre working through the easy grades right now, the gym youre climbing at should be setting the appropriate amount of foot holds to make the routes flow.. try utlitlizing your feet to push you up the wall, rather than pulling yourself up the wall with your arms. Think of your arms as hinges and your legs as the driving force.. also try moving both of your feet before you make a hand movement... that creates a more squatting up to the next hold motion rather than pulling yourself up. 

If you can think about all 4 of your appendages as points, you want to work on 3 and 4 point climbing, rather than just high stepping and cranking. This forces you to use only 3 and 2 points to ascend.. power is good to have but learning climbing efficently is more important. Carrying your power up the route and being to crank when needed is what is required to climb routes that are 100’+. 
If you can traverse in your gym around the rope area section i suggest doing so.. try using any feet and only using foot holds and the worst holds for your hands.. this will help teach you to move efficiently using all 4 points and to maneuver bad hand holds. There are no slam dunk jugs outside. Learn to crimp, grab slopers and having good body positioning. Try not to get caught up working problems with lots of trickery or fluff.. you never see that stuff outside. Getting strong for it inside is a sport unto itself, but if you want to train for climbing outside, learn to lock off well and keep your crimp hand strong!