Finalising design on climbing jeans

that guy named seb wrote: Didn't mean it to sound patronising it's simply that most womens jeans tend to be skinny jeans, these will not be.
There are indeed lots of options out there, the reason we decided to release leggings is not due to lazyiness it's the simple fact that every woman we talk insists that the most comfortable thing they own is their leggings womens just seem to really like their leggings. These aren't just some lazily imported and branded generic leggings ours have a very unique selling point one i will reveal closer to the time.
This would be giving away the grand unveiling, i assure you these will fit both men and women equally well.

If talks with the manufacturer don't go as well as I hope there will be womens specific fit jeans, at the moment though it shouldn't be needed.

A big thing for me is a waist fit-- I want something that doesn't gape in the back, and stays on, without slowly creeping down. I really can't see how you can accommodate both men and women in a single cut, and make this true, considering different waist/hip ratios. The length is another big thing, and unless you are offering these in different lengths I really can't see how it would accommodate a 5ft tall woman and a typical guy.

I'm curious, why do people want climbing JEANS, specifically?

Is it really only so you could wear them in town, and then go climbing, and then go to the bar afterwards, all without changing the pants? In which case, women-specific leggings isn't the same thing. Sure, these days you can wear leggings almost everywhere as pants, but the situations in which leggings are appropriate are still more narrow than for the jeans... I work in a casual setting and can get away with wearing jeans at work. I DEFINITELY can't get away with leggings at work, except maybe for a pair of black ones under the dress.

Still, I'd be willing to give these jeans a try, if only so I could get a pair of comfortable well-fitting jeans... But I really can't see myself climbing in them. I end up wearing my E9s in town way more than climbing in them. They definitely are the most comfortable pair of pants I own, and I have climbed in them. But leggings are just more comfortable still. And while I might be willing to pay a bit extra for the "climbing" jeans that i would end up mostly wearing as regular jeans in town (because the regular non-climbing jeans that fit me aren't the cheap ones, anyway, and these climbing jeans would be probably in the same price range as more expensive but still off-the-rack jeans), I really can't see myself splurging on "climbing leggings" when there are so many well-fitting leggings options for relatively cheap already.  What would make your leggings different than other leggings... I guess we will see in due time. :)

My biggest thing would be please make them out of something durable other than cotton. I still climb in two pairs of Patagonia Stoveleg pants I was lucky enough to buy about 15 years ago. I've had to have some of the seams restitched a few times, but the material is bomber and comfy. And it doesn't threaten me with hypothermia when it gets wet.

As a bonus, these are the only pants I ever found in the time I lived in Tucson that seemed to be shin-dagger proof.

Rhinestones, please. Thank you.

that guy named seb wrote:
This would be giving away the grand unveiling, i assure you these will fit both men and women equally well.

Go try on some women's jeans, numb nuts

Another vote for functional belt loops. (1) For people who wear belts every day, why should this change for these pants? (2) Sizes change depending on the season (winter warmth weight) and a belt can compensate for those changes. (3) I know people with almost no hips that need to wear a belt for all pants. (4) You can always not wear a belt. (5) Many get used to a harness on a belt; it distributes a heavy gear load, even with a good fitting harness. It's the same reason I would never climb in gym shorts. (6) Flimsy internal belt synches are a no go for me. They slip and change throughout the day and are weird with a harness.

I personally would love to have jeans with a built in harness that fit like normal jeans like with a perma-belt that is the harness. I normally just wear normal jeans but it would be cool if I could wear any pair of jean like a normal pair of jeans, wash them like a normal pair of jeans, and than when I go climbing just tie into something at the zipper area and climb. The problem though is I am assuming the wear of them could weaken the harness to fast or they would cost to much to basically own multi harness jeans to use every day.

I always wear a belt because I wear the same pants multi days before washing them and they tend to stretch out after the first day. I also just buy them on the larger side because it makes it better to climb in them. Tight jeans and climbing is not ideal. The only tight pants I like to climb in are spandex (cheap even if they do tear up on sharp rock) which are the best thing I have ever climbed in, they provide padding so the harness doesn't rub and flex really well for doing splits on a chimney.

ViperScale . wrote: I personally would love to have jeans with a built in harness that fit like normal jeans like with a perma-belt that is the harness.

I know these are not jeans, but...  Mammut Realization pants.
And, for those warmer days - Mammut Realization shorts.

Mammut also had something similar for women.

Since we're doing the wishlist thing.

• Reinforced knees
• integrated belt with no belt loops. I'm currently a fan of the bdel Dogma style pant (though don't know why they add belt loops with an integrated belt.) 
  • Pic here: 
• Smaller pocket below the main waist pockets which tends to be good for storing the topo, or small radio, or better yet, pack of cigs. 
• I'm still up i the air between horizontal pockets versus diagonal pockets, but having one or two of the pockets with a zipper or even a button closure would be helpful as I'm always worried about my phone falling out of my pockets 
• I'm not a fan of convertible pants, but a roll and button or elastic cinch on the bottom of the pant legs would be helpful for creek crossings or hot days. 
• I know they're jeans, but I tend to select bright colors so that if there's an emergency issue I'm easier to find on the wall from far away (also it helps if I'm on El Cap and Tom is taking photos)
• All that said, I don't normally wear jeans because I'm constantly afraid of a freak rain shower and then having to deal with the heavy wet denim, not sure if there's a way to mitigate this while still using that material. 

Zippered pockets are key, in a place where your harness doesnt squish whatever you have in the against your leg.

And a  problem i have is when im cleaning a pitch, and i go to clip the gear back onto my harness but the nose of  the biner gets hooked on my pants pocket. 

FIVE pockets? What's the point of that useless 2 x 2 inch thing under the right front pocket. Maybe young'uns keep a condom in there?

amarius wrote:

I know these are not jeans, but...  Mammut Realization pants.
And, for those warmer days - Mammut Realization shorts.

Mammut also had something similar for women.

The cost is way to much I would maybe pay like 75$ for a pair of daily jeans that I could also climb in whenever I wanted but 230$ isn't worth it. Those also don't have a hook in the back for the chalk bag.

pockets on thigh's would be cool so you can carry your phone/snacks/trash in a place that does not need to bend (with a zip closure of course). A high waist would be really functional so you can eliminate belt, reinforced stress points for chimney's- cause if anyone's wearing jeans on a multi-pitch, it's either cause it's cold or you have some serious scraping ahead of you. Elastic cuffs seem to be super trendy right now so you can see your feet.

The only thing that really interests me is the ability to move.  Not all stretchy pants are that good when it comes to not impeding motion.  I'm sometimes surprised to find the material stretches in only one direction, and that direction is, relative to the climber's body, horizontal rather than vertical.

i think the crotch gusset is ok but mostly misses the point.  When you step up in most pants, the knee is forced to slide down the leg.  Resistance between material and skin, whether or not there is stretch, restricts free motion as the pant material is pulled past the knee.  The phenomenon is especially notable if it is hot and your legs are sweating a little.  This is why some people grab their pant legs on either side of the crotch and hike them up, pre-postioning the knee lower down the leg and eliminating pulling the pant leg fabric over the knee.  

I believe this issue can be solved by cut, but rarely find any pants that succeed.  (Marmot made a pair I still have that actually worked, so of course they discontinued them.)

Here's how I test climbing pants:  I put on light (but not slippery) long underwear, put the pants over that, and try various high-stepping motions.  The long underwear increases the knee-pant leg friction to the point where the knee won't slide (or only slides with noticeable resistance) so the role of the pant cut is brought into sharp focus.  Other than that one pair of Marmot pants that gets an A, I've never found a pair that did better than about B+ in this test..

As for pockets, most pants have too many.  All you really need for climbing is a small place with a zipper for keys.  If used for the pub, another pocket for a wallet.   A cell phone hip pocket is good fo street use and hiking but not climbing.  If included, the hip pocket can't be too far down the leg and it can't be on top of the thigh (I've had pants with both those flaws.)

Basically, what rgold said. The main thing that matters to me is that the pants don't restrict motion. I do a lot of high stepping. Of course durability is also a primary concern. The other thing I look for in climbing pants is the ability to roll up the pant leg for warmer temps. The whole zip off thing is hokey and probably not a good thing for climbing, but maybe it could be redesigned.

it would be cool if they came with a $200 Patagonia gift card in the pocket, so then I could afford a pair of Patagonia and compare the two-

Pnelson wrote: Reinforced knees like in Carhartts or Arborwear, but with much more flexibility would be great.

Paul, if you just worked on developing some semblance of technique you'd stop wearing through the knees of your climbing pants.

that guy named seb wrote: i assure you these will fit both men and women equally well.

LOLOLOLOLOLOL. Oh naivety. These responses are spot on.

Lena chita wrote: I really can't see how you can accommodate both men and women in a single cut, and make this true, considering different waist/hip ratios.

Eric Fjellanger wrote: Go try on some women's jeans, numb nuts

The often overlooked thing on men's climbing pants is having a full, long zipper on the fly, preferably one that zips both ways, bottom up is best with a harness. This type zipper used to more common and I have only seen recently on some Mtn Equipment pants.

Everyone's favorite Prana Zion and E9 pants have short little zippers that I find super annoying to use under a harness.

Fit is everything. If they don't move when I do, no interest. Rgold has it nailed. I like a zippered pocket for keys and cell phone, ideally not on the front of my thigh in case I take a fall, but as long as it's deep enough to never worry about the key falling out, a zipper is not mandatory. Currently wearing the Eddie Bauer Men's Horizon Guide Five-Pocket Pants - Straight Fit. Got drug into the EB story by my wife after a hike cause they were having a sale and she was interested in it. Tried on a pair and they fit magnificently so I bought a literal armful of them. I daily wear them in the office, hiking and climbing. Yesterday cut out of work a bit early and did an after work lap without changing them out. Love the things and although they are thin and I don't expect longevity, especially in the knees and ass, I don't care. EB claimed that they had something they called "stormrepel" a DWR finish which sheds moisture. Not sure how many washes that's good for, but I live in a wet area, and getting some rain or hiking cross country through dew covered brush in the early am isn't as bad as it use to be. Love at first sight.

NorCalNomad wrote: LOLOLOLOLOLOL. Oh naivety. These responses are spot on.

You’re probably right, BUT Im curious to see what he comes out with... maybe like 30 sizing options so you can put in your waist, hip, inseam length and the website tells you which pair will fit? Instead of just hip and inseam as it is now for guys and numbered sizing for women.