First Set of Half Ropes

Hi all, I've done some research and narrowed my search down for my first set of half ropes and looking for some suggestions/direction. Would be using these ropes for a few areas - trad, alpine & ice climbing. Ropes I'm considering are: Mammut Phoenix 8.0mm ($190), Sterling Evolution Duetta 8.4mm ($150), and the Mammut Genesis 8.5mm ($200).

Are any a clear favorite here? From what I'm finding around the 8.5mm is recommended for you first set of halfs? I'm leaning towards the Sterling Duetta, though its only rated as a half rope, whereas the other two are both half/twin certified. What are the drawbacks here, or would this really matter too much?

I like the idea of the weight savings of the Mammut Phoenix, but is 8.0mm a smart idea for a first half rope? (was also eyeing the Sterling Fusion which is 7.8mm if anyone recommends this too?)

Feel free to chime in as well if you feel there's a rope I'm leaving out that better fits my needs! - Thanks

I've no experience with the Sterling ropes, but I know the Mammut Phoenix are great ropes. I don't see why 8mm wouldn't be just fine as your first half ropes. Half rope technique is really not as difficult as people try to make it out to be.

I don't know why you would choose a half-technique-only rope when you can get other ropes that will allow you to employ either half or twin technique.

The Phoenix ropes are wonderful--light, compact, and very nice handling. If you choose the Genesis, they will probably be not only your first pair, but your last, since they are noted for their durability. On the other hand, if you're going to work with ropes that large and heavy, you might consider a triple-rated (half, twin, single) one instead.

The Fusions are scary fast to rappel on, even if your device is rated for 7.8mm--and many are not.

The Mammut Genesis 8.5 is great for rock climbing, burly and durable. Also fairly thick so no qualms about climbing in group of 3 with a second on 1 rope.

Not being able to lead as either half or twin would be a deal breaker for me. I often switch techniques depending on what the pitch is like or who I am climbing with. 

I realize two pairs is a lot of $, but I suggest keeping your ice climbing doubles dedicated to that purpose.  Abrasion on rock will eliminate their water repellency in a few pitches and make them really unpleasant to use on long ice routes.
One way to reduce sticker shock is to use your doubles on ice for a couple seasons, then re-purpose them for rock.  They will still be like new and will not have taken any falls.  Then get new ice ropes and keep rolling.
Also, I think you might consider how much you weigh.  I am 190lb, and find 8.0mm or less a bit thin for rock.  I use 7.7 on ice (few edges, and you don't lead fall on ice anyway), but Genesis 8.5mm on rock.  I am happy with those choices.  Genesis is much more durable than any other rope I've used recently.  I think it is reasonable do downsize a bit more if you weight less.

With regard to half vs. twin technique, the primary concern with using a half-rated rope as a twin is impact force.  Number of falls is also possibly an issue, technically, but practically speaking if you're willing to whip on 1 strand (half technique), you should be just fine whipping on 2 of them (twin technique).  However, by pairing the strands, you are increasing impact force.

While the Duetto doesn't appear to be officially rated as a twin, note that it has a 6.5 kN impact force when used as a half rope.  There are quite a few double or triple rated ropes on the market that have similar values for the half (55 kg, <8 kN) test that also pass the twin (80 kg, <12 kN) test, so you're probably fine.  For example:

Edelrid Swift - 6.7 kN/10.4 kN ( edelrid.de/en/sports/dynami…)
Mammut Serenity - 6.3 kN/9.7 kN ( us.mammut.com/p/2010-02622-…)
Beal Joker - 6.0 kN/9.5 kN ( weighmyrack.com/Rope/Beal-9…)
Sterling Fusion Nano - 6.6/10.4 ( weighmyrack.com/Rope/Sterli…)
Petzl Tango - 6.6/9.9 ( weighmyrack.com/Rope/Petzl-…)

Note that there are also softer catching ropes that have impact forces quite a bit lower than these, for example:
Beal Gully - 5.2 kN/7.9 kN
Mammut Genesis - 5.6 kN/8.3 kN

If you look at the numbers, I think you'll find that most half ropes are "probably" also ok to use as twins, regardless of whether they are officially rated as such.

Edit: The mathematics of the relationship between half and twin impact forces aren't necessarily straightforward, due to non-linearity of rope behavior, and the combination of the higher test mass (80 vs 55 kg) combined with the "stiffer spring" effect of the 2 ropes.  However, based on the numbers above, we can see that (anecdotally) the impact force increases by 50-60% going from the half test to the twin test (don't confuse this number with an increase in impact force in a real-life scenario with the same mass).  Given that the test limit is 50% higher for the twin test (12 kN vs. 8 kN), any rope that fits within this 50-60% window will pass the twin test as long as it's not right up against the limit in the half test (7.5 kN is the cutoff point for ropes on the high end of the range at 60% increase).  This is not a rigorous scientific analysis, but on the other hand it matches all of the data that we have and most ropes have some margin on these numbers, so it seems like a fairly reasonable assumption.

Note that the maximum allowable UIAA impact force for a twin rope is 12 kN, so both of these ropes have some margin, although many of them are harder catching than something like a soft Beal half rope. ( uiaa-web.azureedge.net/wp-c…)

Again, this isn't officially tested, but realistically, it's likely fine.

(Note that triple rated ropes are generally going to be pretty hard-catching as twins, because they have to also meet the single rope requirements which inherently makes them stiffer than a rope rated purely for twin use).

It's a bit out-of-date (from 2011), but note some interesting comments from Dave Furman at Mammut on Steph Davis's blog ( stephdavis.co/blog/straight…):

In continental Europe, outside of a few areas, fewer people use half-rope technique–most people use their half ropes with Twin technique clipping both strands together—consequently most of the half ropes on the market will pass the test for both half and twin ropes, and this is common enough that it is assumed. All of Mammuts half ropes will also pass the twin rope test

For rock use I generally use something a bit larger than ice; currently on Beal Cobra (8.6mm) ropes and like them a lot.

Gonna vote for the pheonix .  I love mine and use them for rock and Ice without issue.  I core shot one recently on rappel due to falling rock, but even a 10mm rope would have been toast. The low weight a good handling make them my favorite ropes.  I am sure the 8.5 is great too, but the 8.0 is lighter and plenty burly.

Thanks everyone so far the responses! Every single one has been helpful and great advice. Seeing a lot of love for the mammuts to no surprise. I knew there’d be plenty love for the genesis as everything I’d heard previously about it, but glad to hear some positive first hand testimonies for the Phoenix as I’ll probably prefer to go a little skinnier/lighter. Keep em coming though! 

I own the fusions and I love them. I use the MicroJul with them and haven’t had any issues with rappelling. They are really light. I’ve had people ask if I’m climbing on accessory cord they look so thin though haha. Solid ropes, rated half and twin. 

I think you should consider the Mammut twilight 7.5. I’ve only just got mine and climbed on then a few times but they’re great, handle well even in a reverso (just bought the microjul though). Super light-weight and i think they’re on sale right now.

Good luck

Kyle Tarry wrote:
For rock use I generally use something a bit larger than ice; currently on Beal Cobra (8.6mm) ropes and like them a lot.

I own the Beal Verdon half ropes and find them too soft and floppy.  They are horribly prone to tangling and clusterf@@@s.  They're due for replacement and I'm looking at the Cobras for rock.  How do they handle?  Tangles? Durability?  

baldclimber wrote:

I own the Beal Verdon half ropes and find them too soft and floppy.  They are horribly prone to tangling and clusterf@@@s.  They're due for replacement and I'm looking at the Cobras for rock.  How do they handle?  Tangles? Durability?  

I find that Beal ropes tend to be soft to handle, and soft catching.  I like my Cobras a lot, but I wouldn't want you to get them and be unhappy.  The Cobra is specifically advertised by Beal as having a greater sheath percentage than some of their other half ropes, so durability on rock is quite good.  Mine have been through the ringer on rock, ice, and alpine, and are still doing well, although the dry treatment is mostly dead these days.

Kyle Tarry wrote:

I find that Beal ropes tend to be soft to handle, and soft catching.  I like my Cobras a lot, but I wouldn't want you to get them and be unhappy.  

I'm a big boy and don't blame others for my purchasing decisions :)

While the Verdon doubles are larger at 9mm they have a very loose sheeth.  May be a factor in their floppy handling and tendency to cluster.  My pair is also somewhat old and newer versions might be improved.  Handling-wise I've always liked the Mammut Genesis but their impact force is rather high when used off-label as twins.

baldclimber wrote: I've always liked the Mammut Genesis but their impact force is rather high when used off-label as twins.

I don't really understand why one would buy a pair of doubles, then use them as twins?  I could see buying twins to save some weight and of course use them as twins, giving up all the benefits of doubles, but why do this if you have doubles in the first place?

Edelrid Apus! 7.9mm, rated half/twin, so svelte! 

beal opera has been pretty slick. triple rated but thin enough to use as half/twin without sadness.

Eric and Lucie wrote:

I don't really understand why one would buy a pair of doubles, then use them as twins?  I could see buying twins to save some weight and of course use them as twins, giving up all the benefits of doubles, but why do this if you have doubles in the first place?

to get full length raps without tagging

Chris Blatchley wrote:

to get full length raps without tagging

You can do that with half ropes or twin ropes.  The question was why use half ropes in twin mode, and the answer is "it depends," because sometimes there are situations where half rope technique makes more sense, and sometimes there are situations where twin rope technique makes more sense.  It's nice to have the flexibility, if the ropes allow for it.

Chris Blatchley wrote: beal opera has been pretty slick. triple rated but thin enough to use as half/twin without sadness.

How's the durability been in the Beal operas?

Kyle Tarry wrote:

You can do that with half ropes or twin ropes.  The question was why use half ropes in twin mode, and the answer is "it depends," because sometimes there are situations where half rope technique makes more sense, and sometimes there are situations where twin rope technique makes more sense.  It's nice to have the flexibility, if the ropes allow for it.

Sure, I have occasionally used my doubles as twins for quick traversing pitches, or a short technical pitch on a doubled-over half rope in alpine terrain, etc, but it is always a matter of convenience (e.g. keeping ropes a bit more neatly out of the way) rather than necessity.  You always have the option to clip them as doubles if you're worried about impact forces.  I have been climbing for 22 years almost exclusively on doubles (unless I am single-pitch-cragging) both on rock and ice, and have used those doubles as twins perhaps 0.1% of the time...

What I am saying is: if you're going to buy doubles (a good choice!), use them as doubles, and don't worry about them being rated as twins.

Consider too that for double ropes to pass the tests as twins, they need to be more dynamic.  This also means longer falls when you use them as doubles.  Lower impact forces, sure, but if there are ledges or other features to hit...

If you want to consider a super-skinny, triple-rated, I'd recommend the Edelrid Canary, 8.6mm. Compare its 47% sheath percentage to the Beal's 36%(ish) percentage....I've only had my Canary a few weeks, but I'm assuming it's going to wear better than the Operas....though I'd like to test 'em side by side.......