WC Revo vs Silent Partner for solo

Greg Miller wrote: I used the silent partner as well and then switched to the Eddy with almost your exact same set up (back up sling etc). Just wondering have you taken a significant lead fall on it? I do like the fact you can "take" on it vs the silent partner.. though i did take a couple whips on that.

I'm not sure what you mean by "back up sling", but yes I've taken multiple 'significant' lead falls on knots, the grigri, and the Eddy. What I never do, however, is take on the device which I consider a particularly bad habit to get into when leading trad so I count not really being able to take as a very real positive for the SP.

So I got the replacement and noticed it was more solid. The Serial # was in the 200's and had the same manufacture date as the previous. I noticed the same tuber I had problems with in the previous one still had a gap under weight, but about half as much as the bad revo.
I took some falls below a bolt on both sides and it locked up well within two to three feet, before rope stretch. I used my 10mm rope and left the others at home.
I also took a few falls from about two feet above the bolt and it seemed to lock up within the same amount of rope.

I tried lead climbing with the rope free hanging from the device and found it to be better than the grigri and similar to a slow rope feeding belayer. It fed much smoother from the waist while climbing above the bolt than other devices. I could down-climb the route easily enough afterwards, which was a great feature.

I did not want to test lead falls with the rope in a pack since I was concerned any resistance from the pack would cause it to not reach the catch speed or drop me much further than I would care to. I will try it next time I bring a second rope for a backup. This may be the only device I use backup knots for.

I used a Petzl quicklink instead of a biner, since the biner hole is pretty big and allows the device to wander on even the thickest carabiner. I am not sure about the integrity of the biner holes with high FFs. 

The taking of rope and locking the device is pretty easy (when unweighted), although it doesn't give me the confidence other devices do.
The rappel is still smooth, and was not hard to hold my weight with just a hand. Obviously the raps are slow going to prevent the lockup. Getting the rope free on rap, very high winds, was a pain without a backup so I ended up just using the leg wrap instead of extending the rap for a hitch.
I don't feel comfortable taking a whip in this right now. Maybe someone else does and can let us know how it performs.

Fell from 3-4' above a cam and fell a total of 10 feet with little rope out.

Floyd Eggers wrote: I did not want to test lead falls with the rope in a pack since I was concerned any resistance from the pack would cause it to not reach the catch speed or drop me much further than I would care to. I will try it next time I bring a second rope for a backup. This may be the only device I use backup knots for.

That would mean you'd always have to have a sufficient loop of slack rope hanging down from the pack to ensure it could achieve lockup speed. 

Greg Miller wrote:

The back up sling that goes through the clip in point of the eddy Incase the carabiner fails..

Ah, ok, thanks. Yeah, that little sling brings a lot of piece of mind. It's the connection issue I'm most interested in checking out with the Revo, may be able to look at one this weekend.

There's an interesting article on rope-soloing by Peter Whitaker on UKC; https://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/skills/how_to_rope_solo_-_with_pete_whittaker-11160 .

The most interesting point for me was the practice of leaving all the free rope in a rope bag at the anchor and running it up through a minitraction clipped to a belay loop.  The climber pulls slack out of the minitraction to feed into the Silent Partner.  The minitraction keeps the rope-weight from back-feeding the SP.  With this method, you don't have to have a bunch of loops on the harness or the rope in a backpack.

rgold wrote: There's an interesting article on rope-soloing by Peter Whitaker on UKC; https://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/skills/how_to_rope_solo_-_with_pete_whittaker-11160 .

The most interesting point for me was the practice of leaving all the free rope in a rope bag at the anchor and running it up through a minitraction clipped to a belay loop.  The climber pulls slack out of the minitraction to feed into the Silent Partner.  The minitraction keeps the rope-weight from back-feeding the SP.  With this method, you don't have to have a bunch of loops on the harness or the rope in a backpack.

I'm trying to get my head around this. If the trax was on the bag side it would reduce the weight of rope on that side, and hence increase the chance of back feed in the SP

Having now read the essay, I see that the trax is not there to stop back feeding, But the opposite. It stops the SP having difficulty feeding correctly when the weight on the bag side is high

I personally don't own a Revo but am interested. In order to solve the shifting side plate to get a more snug fit has anybody tried to get two narrow lockers inside the attachment hole instead of using one large one? I feel like using two Petzl Spirit/Sm'd or Camp Photon lockers could possibly fit into the hole together to provide extra redundancy and reduce some of the slop in the side plate. If anyone has tried this or could feedback would be appreciated as well as insight as to if it would improve the performance. 

David Coley wrote: Having now read the essay, I see that the trax is not there to stop back feeding, But the opposite. It stops the SP having difficulty feeding correctly when the weight on the bag side is high

Yup, my terminology mistake.  What I like is what appears to be a very effective way of leaving the rope down at the anchior rather than having to carry up loops or pull it out of a backpack.

rgold wrote: The most interesting point for me was the practice of leaving all the free rope in a rope bag at the anchor and running it up through a minitraction clipped to a belay loop.  The climber pulls slack out of the minitraction to feed into the Silent Partner.  The minitraction keeps the rope-weight from back-feeding the SP.  With this method, you don't have to have a bunch of loops on the harness or the rope in a backpack.

Totally a matter of personal preference and environment. On a Valley big wall the rope is going to feed relatively clean on most pitches and you probably have other shit at the anchor you're going to grab while cleaning I get that. But that's not the environment I climb in which wanders and snags over the course of pitches and subject to winds up to 60-70kts at times. And I started in '75 dragging rope loops on my harness and just got used to the climbing with the weight of the rope. All in all, between the two, I just can't stand having both sides of the rope running down and not having the rope with me. It doesn't really slow me down and I can lead 5.10+ all day carrying the rope and climbing the pitches twice.

Andrew Steavpack wrote: I personally don't own a Revo but am interested. In order to solve the shifting side plate to get a more snug fit has anybody tried to get two narrow lockers inside the attachment hole instead of using one large one? I feel like using two Petzl Spirit/Sm'd or Camp Photon lockers could possibly fit into the hole together to provide extra redundancy and reduce some of the slop in the side plate. If anyone has tried this or could feedback would be appreciated as well as insight as to if it would improve the performance. 

The madrock hulk is a big fat green caribiner that fits it pretty tight, and it is rated for 32kn

rgold wrote:

Yup, my terminology mistake.  What I like is what appears to be a very effective way of leaving the rope down at the anchior rather than having to carry up loops or pull it out of a backpack.

I've done a lot of both. The sack thing is just the job for climbs I know or that are well within my grade. Or slabs. On big walls the weak and slow like me will be hauling, so little point keeping the rope in a sack, as you will still be dragging the haul line. On overhanging stuff I find a sack impossible.

On another note, I think the reason the trax works for PW so well is I'm not sure he tied any backup on the El Cap solo.

David Coley wrote: On another note, I think the reason the trax works for PW so well is I'm not sure he tied any backup on the El Cap solo.

He didn't tie backup knots. It's my understanding that the traxion is purely to deal with the long brake rope without having the difficulty (or safety) of backup knots during hard climbing.

Ok, got my mitts on a Revo earlier today and verified my concerns from pictures about the fragility of the attachment points.

As the design and materials stand now I would not use it for aid or free lead rope soloing nor recommend it as there is no way to provide a back up against a failure of the attachment points (and the odds are way, way better they'd break before the attachment biner).

Healyje wrote: Ok, got my mitts on a Revo earlier today and verified my concerns from pictures about the fragility of the attachment points.

As the design and materials stand now I would not use it for aid or free lead rope soloing nor recommend it as there is no way to provide a back up against a failure of the attachment points (and the odds are way, way better they'd break before the attachment biner).

Super interesting. Does anyone know what is tested and how it’s tested on a belay device to receive certification?

I don't. But I'm pretty sure I could come close to breaking the attachment point by hand if I fixed the biner in a vice and twisted the unit.

The clamshell sides would have to be stainless and still be beefed up before I'd use it as a soloing device.

I just picked up a Revo today and did a single pitch with it and backed up with cloves.  I've only done a couple other rope solo before with all cloves or a Trango Cinch.  I did a test fall and the revo caught about where a normal belayer would catch me.  I still felt nervous trusting it so that was the only fall.   I would sometimes rest on the device tying off with a munter mule.  Once or twice I noticed the device sort of locking up as if I had fallen and felt like I had to disengage it as it was difficult to clip.  It might have been due to resting on the device or something - need to work that part out more.  All in all I think I will like it with more use and practice in the rope solo world.

Regarding the attachment point: would you feel comfortable using the Revo for single pitch lead soloing? If the concern is breaking the device in a big fall, does imposing an upper limit of fall factor 1 change anything for you?

I'm pretty happy with the Eddy for multipitch climbing, but I think the Revo might be a good alternative for hard single pitch climbing. I imagine I'll flake the rope on the ground, perhaps with pretied backup knots, with the Revo as my only attachment. The weight of the brake strand will prevent back feeding at least until half the rope is out, eliminating any need for rebelays to take the rope weight and the need to manage the brake strand weight. With forethought on where I tie backup knots, I hope to lead solo single pitch routes at the same level as I can with a partner. Of course, failure of the attachment point would be unfortunate.