Why Are Trad Routes So Hard??

Hey guys.
I am a long time sport climber who is just getting into trad climbing. I have been sport climbing for years, and have top roped 11b clean and sport led 11a. I have followed trad numerous times, and led a few times, and finally decided to make the plunge and get a rack. Since getting my rack, I have used it twice, and both times I had quite scary experiences. One was on a multi pitch 5.8 on Tahquitz, and the second on a single pitch 5.7 in the Holcomb Pinnacles. In both situations, the routes were way harder than I thought they should be for 5.8 or 7. I feel like if I can climb 11s I should be able to climb 7s or 8s no problem, even on trad lead. I haven't fallen on anything less than a 10 on sport lead in a long time. On the 5.7 at Holcomb Pinnacles, I had a very scary experience when I "fell" (I was level with the cam so the "fall" was mostly rope stretch) on a not bomber cam, and I probably would have decked if it had popped. I just don't understand why trad routes are so hard! Right after I led the 5.7 at Holcomb, I led a sport 5.7 at the same place and it was no problem at all. Why are sport 5.7 and 5.8s so easy, but trad 7s and 8s so hard? It is just because I don't have much crack climbing experience? Or is it that I take so long to place gear that I get pumped? Or do I just freak myself out because I'm scared to fall on trad gear? Or is it because of the extra weight of the rack? Or are trad routes rated differently? Any insight would be appreciated.

I think you answered all of your own questions... All of the above.. 

Climbing is a skill sport. Your skills in the ‘trad’ climbing aspects of our sport aren’t very developed yet. You already seem to know the reasons, you listed the major ones. Be patient, and stop falling when there is one piece between you and broken bones. Make sure every piece of gear is great - why are you placing ‘not bomber’ cams on moderate cracks? Get out of that habit ASAP.

Top rope mileage on crack climbs, or any 5.7/8/9 that feels much harder than it should) may help more than anything else at this point.

One more time, stop placing shit gear! It’ll bite you in the ass one day. Make. Every. Piece. Great.

For a long time 5.9 trad involved the hardest climbing movements known to mankind. The cutting edge of what was even remotely possible....

And you're already approaching that limit on the 8s. Nice!

Next threads to look forward to:
“I can drive an automatic like it ain’t no thang, why is driving stick so hard?”
“I can fish with a reel like a boss, why is fly fishing so hard?”
“I can box like a pro, why is MMA so hard?”
“I’ve got small hands and can climb 5.10 finger cracks easily, why can’t I climb a 5.10 off-hands crack easily?”
“I’ve got big hands and can climb 5.10 off-hands easily, why can’t I climb 5.10 finger cracks easily?”
“I developed one set of skills over a long period of time, slowly increasing my ability through practice and effort, why isn’t a completely different set of skills something I can learn overnight?”

Alexander Blum wrote:

One more time, stop placing shit gear! It’ll bite you in the ass one day. Make. Every. Piece. Great.

#Again.

Seriously though, these are words to live by so it's well worth repeating again.

jt newgard wrote: For a long time 5.9 trad involved the hardest climbing movements known to mankind. The cutting edge of what was even remotely possible....

Echoing this comment. 

The Yosemite Decimal System (YDS), or our 5.x rating system was developed in the 1950s in Tahquitz. There were literally 9 climbs rated 5.1 through 5.9. Each time someone climbed a route in Tahquitz, they would compare the new route to these 9 climbs and rate it accordingly. 

When you research a climb you should understand a few key details - 

When was the FA put up? If in 1950-1960, there's a good chance that it was judged based on a scale of 5.1-5.9, before additional grades were added. Some of these routes might have a higher rating if the FA was put up today.

Where are you climbing? Many areas were graded in a vacuum so a 5.8 is vastly different between regions.

Who put up the FA? Certain climbers were known to sandbag their ratings, either based on their ability level or to make it seem like it was easier for them. It should also be known that OW and chimneys were often considered easy by the early hardmen in CA - several have 5.6-5.8 rates and can catch newbies off guard.

This can all seem annoying for new trad leaders. Many ask why everything hasn't been retrograded for consistency. I've learned to enjoy it - you have to do some research to understand the region, FA year and FA party and develop your own opinion.

Don't be in a rush. Trad is a new experience and there's a lot to learn so don't be in a major rush to burn your way up the numbers. This will give you a new appreciation for the easy grades (5.5 and 5.6 are a good place to start) and open up a lot more new routes. 

Taking the time to engineer your way up a rather blank looking face can be intimidating but also quite satisfying, particularly when the pro doesn't jump out at you like on a straight up crack climb. Look at it as something different than sport climbing, at least until placing the gear starts to become second nature.

If you have trouble understanding why 5.7 trad might kick your ass consider how it differs a bit more. When you are learning, climbing a route takes 2-3x as long, comes with lugging a ton more weight, and stopping every few feet to fiddle in widgits you don't necessarily believe will stop your fall the way a bolt will. Plus holding on and shifting position as you discover you've chosen the wrong nut (again!).

And place more gear than you think you need until you are certain you understand what a safe amount of gear is. Don't treat the bottom like a sport route and place a single piece where you might the first bolt. You'll want to have a few more there to spread the load out and keep you off the deck if unanticipated rope pull causes your gear to take loads from funky directions. And take it seriously and don't listen to any BS from folks giving you crap about sewing things up.

If all this sounds foreign read more books and/or take a class. There's a lot to learn. 

Alex Nelson wrote:Or are trad routes rated differently?

All of the above, but this most importantly, in my opinion.  As others mentioned, climbing is a skill based sport.  You get better at climbing harder grades not just by getting stronger but by getting mileage climbing similar things so that your muscles develop a repertoire of moves that work. Think about the first time you climbed an overhanging wall...I guarantee an overhung 5.9 would have felt harder than a vertical one if it was your first time and you hadn’t encoded things like drop knees, back stepping, etc.  We use a common grading system to rank things but really it’s a guess for widely disparate styles.  Crack is its own grading scale, slab is its own, sport is its own.  These tend to correlate fairly well and there is some transfer, but if you’ve never climbed a crack or slab before, you bet it’s going to feel hard.  Don’t worry so much about what trad grade you should be climbing based on your sport grade; think of it as starting over.

Alex Nelson wrote: Hey guys.
I am a long time sport climber who is just getting into trad climbing. I have been sport climbing for years, and have top roped 11b clean and sport led 11a. I have followed trad numerous times, and led a few times, and finally decided to make the plunge and get a rack. Since getting my rack, I have used it twice, and both times I had quite scary experiences. One was on a multi pitch 5.8 on Tahquitz, and the second on a single pitch 5.7 in the Holcomb Pinnacles. In both situations, the routes were way harder than I thought they should be for 5.8 or 7. I feel like if I can climb 11s I should be able to climb 7s or 8s no problem, even on trad lead. I haven't fallen on anything less than a 10 on sport lead in a long time. On the 5.7 at Holcomb Pinnacles, I had a very scary experience when I "fell" (I was level with the cam so the "fall" was mostly rope stretch) on a not bomber cam, and I probably would have decked if it had popped. I just don't understand why trad routes are so hard! Right after I led the 5.7 at Holcomb, I led a sport 5.7 at the same place and it was no problem at all. Why are sport 5.7 and 5.8s so easy, but trad 7s and 8s so hard? It is just because I don't have much crack climbing experience? Or is it that I take so long to place gear that I get pumped? Or do I just freak myself out because I'm scared to fall on trad gear? Or is it because of the extra weight of the rack? Or are trad routes rated differently? Any insight would be appreciated.

Dude! Don’t post stuff like this! The old traddies get so excited they risk heart failure. 

Seriously though, I have mostly trad climbed for 7 years. When I do sport climb, I think it’s hard and scary. It’s all about where you have mileage. 

Yup.

Back in my day it was all just called climbing!

You either summited or died!

The leader did not fall and the follower did not lead!

New fangled sprad is a harbinger of my ballooning prostate!

Damn kids, placing freshly anodized pieces with your balls all shiny!

Did I miss anything important?

One thing I would add about trad cracks is that many newbies don't realize that there are distinct "holds" that are the ideal jams to use and instead are pawing all over the crack thinking that they should be able to make a hold work anywhere in the crack.

au contraire mon ami, you must read even easy cracks to see where the locker/slammer jams are, read the sequence as well as anticipate foot jams, stances to place pro, and keep it all organized so you don't hose yourself plugging gear in your jams and step on the rope in the crack etc etc. Its as sequential as climbing gets keeping it all organized and flowing.

Tincture of time/mileage. If you are strong enough to lead 11a sport you can do the same on trad, you just need to put in the time...which is harder to come by and more precious than gym mileage. And every crack size has its own specialized techniques, its far more complicated than simple bolted face climbing. The reason most people simply lead trad well below their sport ability is that they just aren't dialed in for that particular crack and are inefficient placing gear and they have to muscle their way up. Its gonna take its toll. Once you have the technique dialed in and are lapping technical cracks 11a will feel like 11a....if its a size crack that fits your hands lol.

YGD™.

You are not proficient at placing gear, building anchors, or have an understanding of the systems and physics involved.

Dial it back further.  Get on 5.5 and 5.6 where the climbing should truly be secondary, and focus on placing gear, anchors, stances, rope management.  When you're at the point when you can fire in a bomber piece and not think twice, step it up and try some more engaging routes.  Until then, 5.8 will feel difficult.

Dana Bartlett wrote:

Routes harder than 5.9 were done in Europe almost 100 years ago.

Of course they were, but no one would call them harder than 5.9 for fear of upping the grade limits. Ha. 

kevin deweese wrote:
“I’ve got big hands and can climb 5.10 off-hands easily, why can’t I climb 5.10 finger cracks easily?”

I’ll nitpick since you are being kind of an ass. If your hands fit well in an “off hands” crack it is not off hands. It’s just a hand crack. If your fat fingers don’t fit into a finger crack, it’s not a finger crack. 

Carry on. 

To the op. Stop worrying about the grades. Have fun, be patient, be safe. 

My comment was kind of snarky too. But point was to enjoy the journey and forget the grades. Just have fun and don't fall. Toprope harder cracks. Maybe you have tiny routes at a local crag. I learned to crack climb on dinkum and test piece at cosumnes gorge. Probably lapped em a hundred times

People who climb really hard trad may laugh at me for saying this, but 5.7 and 5.8 trad are no joke in a lot of places. If the route has cracks for protection but lots of face climbing, it might feel fairly easy to an experienced sport climber, but as you move more into real crack climbing, it becomes a different game.

As others have said, get on easier stuff. I started trad on a lot of 5.3 and 5.4 stuff and happily stayed on those grades as I got comfortable reading rock and placing gear. Take it slowly, be safe, and have fun.

jt newgard wrote: enjoy the journey and forget the grades. Just have fun and don't fall. 

^ Agree completely. The rating is irrelevant.  

The first time I did an overhanging 5.9 sport route with big jugs for holds, it felt physically much harder to me than any 5.9 slab route or any 5.9 hand crack or finger crack I had ever done.  I had not developed the specific body strength and skills for that style of route.  I think your perception of hardness is mostly coming from your skill and experience level.

Well shit, I was late in getting to this one.....it is raining here, so I can't climb.

Seriously, OP, follow someone who has done it before, see what a good placement is and try and emulate that.  Hire a guide to follow you and give you pointers. Continuing as you are will get you hurt or killed, on gear you don't trust or know how to place correctly.  Please.

I climbed at least 20 routes following before I ever led anything. And these were "easy" routes. My first lead ever was a 5.6 that was 40 feet long and ate any gear you threw at it. Still scared me. Now 20 years later I really enjoy leading easy (5.9 and under) routes.

The old dudes with scars on backs of their hands are the ones you want to learn from, they know how to stay alive.

Go to Nomad in Jtree and have someone take you out for a day of easy trad in the Monument. Climb Mental Physics or Double Dogleg or White Lightning, three very straightforward cracks that eat gear.

I guess I am assuming you are in SoCal...