Multipitch anchor questions

Since I travel and climb almost every route/area is a new one.  As a result I carry too much gear, I do this because it is uncomfortable to need something that is in the pack at the base.  I bought a bag of old hexes on ebay for $20 when I first started.  I restrung them.  I always carry 2 for bailing. I also carry a 30' section of web and bullrings or quick links.  I carry a set of binoculars and spend a few minutes studying the route and the terrain left and right of it, this is not always possible due to foliage etc.

Practice using natural pro, I have even used a knot in the rope as a chock stone type placement, not highly recommended but something.

Dallas R wrote: Since I travel and climb almost every route/area is a new one.  As a result I carry too much gear, I do this because it is uncomfortable to need something that is in the pack at the base.  I bought a bag of old hexes on ebay for $20 when I first started.  I restrung them.  I always carry 2 for bailing. I also carry a 30' section of web and bullrings or quick links.  I carry a set of binoculars and spend a few minutes studying the route and the terrain left and right of it, this is not always possible due to foliage etc.

Practice using natural pro, I have even used a knot in the rope as a chock stone type placement, not highly recommended but something.

Solid advice! I've never placed a hex, are there any advantages over bailing on a couple nuts? 

Ryan U. wrote:

Solid advice! I've never placed a hex, are there any advantages over bailing on a couple nuts? 

Not really since they work the same as "nuts" - what were called stoppers - in two of their 4 orientations. Obviously hex sizing goes far beyond stoppers, so there are crack size considerations as well.

Ryan U. wrote:

Solid advice! I've never placed a hex, are there any advantages over bailing on a couple nuts? 

Hexes are nice because they come much larger than nuts usually. They kinda self cam a bit, which can be very useful. Also more solid than cams in icy alpine environments. 

Ryan U. wrote:

Solid advice! I've never placed a hex, are there any advantages over bailing on a couple nuts? 

Mostly that you’re more likely to actually use nuts in lead so it makes sense to hold onto them when bailing whereas with hexes (despite the inevitable protestations of the old dads) you aren’t really going to place them on lead 

It was said earlier in the thread but I don't think I can stress enough being well versed in self rescue.  The self rescue course I took with an AMGA guide was easily the best investment I've made in my entire time climbing and I really wish I had done it before my first time doing multi pitch trip instead of after.  Nothing went wrong on that first trip but if it had I likely would have been up shit creek.  

I also recommend starting small with 2-3 pitch routes if that is possible.  Get used to those and hone your skills on making an anchor in a timely manner because speed in alot of ways becomes safety when you get into bigger stuff (not speaking from personal experience yet as I've only been on that one multi pitch trip but I've had this drilled into me by my mentor who is much more experienced with larger multi pitch).

Christopher Smith wrote: It was said earlier in the thread but I don't think I can stress enough being well versed in self rescue.  The self rescue course I took with an AMGA guide was easily the best investment I've made in my entire time climbing and I really wish I had done it before my first time doing multi pitch trip instead of after.  Nothing went wrong on that first trip but if it had I likely would have been up shit creek.  

I also recommend starting small with 2-3 pitch routes if that is possible.  Get used to those and hone your skills on making an anchor in a timely manner because speed in alot of ways becomes safety when you get into bigger stuff (not speaking from personal experience yet as I've only been on that one multi pitch trip but I've had this drilled into me by my mentor who is much more experienced with larger multi pitch).

+1 to everything Christopher just said.

I practiced my multipitch trad anchors on a single pitch route in an area that sees probably two groups a week. Once you feel comfortable there, you'll be able to work well on the real deal.

Ryan U. wrote:

Solid advice! I've never placed a hex, are there any advantages over bailing on a couple nuts? 

They were cheaper.

A few things to mention since people were recomending bailing.

Cams aren't good for bailing. Due to the cost most would never think of using a cam, but it's also a safety issue as depending o the cam placement the repetitve bouncing of the repel can make a good placement walk.

Bailing isn't necessarily the safest option.

Joel Kushlan wrote:
Cams aren't good for bailing. Due to the cost most would never think of using a cam, but it's also a safety issue as depending on the cam placement the repetitve bouncing of the repel can make a good placement walk

How about a soft belay? Should the belayer do anything to soften the catch? 

Ryan U. wrote: How about a soft belay? Should the belayer do anything to soften the catch? 

Depends on whether you leader is going to hit a ledge or something else. 

edit: let me rephrase. No. outdoor is not the gym. if they've got a clean fall where they're not going to hit anything, then fine do whatever you want it doesn't matter anyways. But there's almost alway a ledge or a part of the rock that's sticking out that your leader will hit whether you see it or not (or whether you can even see your leader or not) the *slight* discomfort they might feel taking a fall without a "soft" catch is insignificant compared to a shattered ankle, hyperextended foot, etc

Ryan U. wrote: How about a soft belay? Should the belayer do anything to soften the catch? 

You gotta be real careful with that.  My wife and I took a Warriors Way class at a gym, practicing falling and catching on lead.  I thought I was being real cute hopping up so when she was at the end of the fall and beginning to stop I was already headed up.  

It was working pretty good until I mistimed the hop, I was coming down from my hop when she hit the end of the rope.  I slapped her against the wall pretty hard, that was the end of my hopping days. Now I just  catch her and let the rest of the system make it a soft catch.

Thanks.  My partner and I practice catching leads falls in the gym I'm a supervisor of.   We've got the soft catch down to science even on long falls.  My walls are 55' so we can practice some realistic size whippers in there.  My question though is should the belayer hop while anchored in at a belay station?  

Ryan U. wrote:   My question though is should the belayer hop while anchored in at a belay station?  

The few gyms I have been in that require the belayer to anchor the leash is so short a hop would be pointless.

I re-read this, hopping on a multi-pitch belay station, I haven't really thought about this much, often is not possible. I think I will stay in the anti-hopping camp.    

Haha, welcome to the crux of trad climbing, for me anyway.  ...Should I place a piece here?  What if I need that piece higher up? Damnit that piece I need is in the anchor below?  Oh no, I've placed all my gear and all I have left for the anchor is a #5 hex and a TCU.  Ahhhh...  

People make fun of me but that's why I carry a few hexes and tri-cams.  Hopefully, I can use them in part of my anchors.  

Nils Babel wrote: Haha, welcome to the crux of trad climbing, for me anyway.  ...Should I place a piece here?  What if I need that piece higher up? Damnit that piece I need is in the anchor below?  Oh no, I've placed all my gear and all I have left for the anchor is a #5 hex and a TCU.  Ahhhh...  

and this about sums it up for me as well...

Ryan U. wrote: We've got the soft catch down to science even on long falls.

Does your science understand that long falls don't need a soft catch due to rope stretch? What is your actual understanding of why we use soft catches in lead climbing?

kevin deweese wrote:

Does your science understand that long falls don't need a soft catch due to rope stretch? What is your actual understanding of why we use soft catches in lead climbing

How long is long enough to where you dont need a hop? We found at 25' - 30' it was still nice to have a hop .  I believe I even seen a video showing this, but I could be mistaken.  

As someone beat me to it, to prevent the climber from slamming into the wall and reducing forces on gear. Hes right, I probably wont be on any terrain that would require it until ive gotten some verticle miles in but it doesnt hurt to ask questions as they come up.

Ryan U. wrote:
How long is long enough to where you dont need a hop? We found at 25' - 30' it was still nice to have a hop .  I believe I even seen a video showing this, but I could be mistaken.  

As someone beat me to it, to prevent the climber from slamming into the wall and reducing forces on gear. Hes right, I probably wont be on any terrain that would require it until ive gotten some verticle miles in but it doesnt hurt to ask questions as they come up.

If you take a 25'-30' fall on easy trad terrain, you're going to hit enough ledges on the way down that soft/hard catch is pretty irrelevant.

I'll go one step further and say you shouldn't be falling on lead at all when starting off. When you're starting off, your gear is bad enough and your falls are slabby enough that almost any fall can be pretty injurious.

To quote Andy Kirkpatrick:

It’s very common when you first start climbing to have your nuts tinkle out below you as you move up.  We even find it funny, sort of like a rite of passage, that classic “Oh I think you may need to put some more gear in” from your belayer, or worse still “don’t fall off - all your gear’s fallen out”, your nuts sliding down the rope one by one.

As you get better you tend to find this happens less and less, which is good, because as you progress the chances of a fall increase.  This gives most climbers the opportunity to learn nutcraft before they need it, while climbing at a grade where they should not be falling off.

Saying this I do see climbers teaching other climbers how to lead without really passing on the right skill, then sending them up a route that is way too hard for their skills set.  The danger here is that when someone who has never led before does their first lead - and I know this may sound crazy - they often don’t fully understand that of they fall off they won’t have a top rope!  The danger here is that the new leader is placing very poor gear but lacks the sense not fall!