Hex nuts?? Do they still have a use?

reboot wrote:
Yeah, they absolutely won't go many places cams will.

Yes, and vice versa.  Hexes will go places cams either won't, or will be inferior in.  Perhaps you just don't get this because you don't place hexes, so you just don't see those placements.  So you make do with the inferior placement, or with running it out, even when it's a bad time to do so because you have a crux coming up, when a hex would provide more security.  I get that, that's how I am with tricams - I never carry them anymore.  But I don't claim they're not useful, I just don't choose to carry them.

Reboot also wrote:
Consider hexes need to be placed in a constriction, they tend to take away good jams (since "jamming" a constriction is way easier than in parallel crack), unless you consider stepping on a hex or having your jam supported by your pro free climbing.

This is a silly argument - most cracks vary a good deal, and there are often side cracks.  When I'm working out which hand I want where to execute the next sequence, it's never as simple as "use the constriction".  It's more often driven by the location of the hold I want, the size of the crack, and the orientation of the holds.  So having more options for different types of gear gives me more options for what can go where and still give me the protection level I want, with the holds free that I need.

And he also wrote:  Maybe that's the reason competent climbers "graduate" away from hexes? On a harder multi-pitch, that's the kind of terrain that one can easily run it out a bit to another placement.

I am by no means a rock star, but I think I can reasonably argue that I am a competent climber.  It would take much better arguments on your part to convince me otherwise.

As for running it out - I have tried both, and let me tell you, I much prefer to run it out when I want to, not because I failed to bring adequate gear!

Cheers,

GO

Matt Himmelstein wrote:

I use my hexes all the time at J-Tree.

There is not a single piece of climbing equipment on the market today that is essential.  People were climbing hard back when they were in hobnail boots and fashioning pro out of stove legs.

That said, I think I need this shirt:

Ha!  I like it.  

I didn't say I don't use hexes at J Tree, I just said I get fewer placements at areas like that.  And, honestly, I haven't climbed at J tree in over a decade, so my memory may be faulty about how well it takes hexes.

GO

GabeO wrote:

The one thing that springs to mind is compact granite with a lot of butt-crack type cracks.  Places like Lumpy and J-Tree.  

Thanks for this. I'd never really thought of them as "Butt-crack type cracks." I'll never look at weathered J-tree monzogranite quite the same.

reboot wrote: This is what I originally wrote (wasn't directed at you until you made it about you):

"Do hexes still have a use? Sure. Would it ever be a thing if cams were invented earlier? Probably not."

I don't think hexes are essential anymore. By that I mean the disappearance of which won't hinder climbing from progressing, and if not for historical reasons, the demand will be small enough nobody would bother refining/making them.

I don't know if you remember, I've climbed w/ you while you were still out in CO (look up my ticks if you need a refresher). And if you still think I don't use hexes b/c I don't "get it"...I'm trying really hard to hold back here.

Okay, sure, I think I know who you are.  I have no idea why you are "holding back".  If you thought from climbing with me that I was not competent, feel free to say so.  I would not say the same of you, you seemed quite solid, and strong.

As for whether or not a piece of gear would or wouldn't "hinder climbing from progressing" - I'm sure you're right about that in regards to hexes.  But that's just not interesting to me.  I'm not on the cutting edge where what drives the sport forward has any bearing on me.  And frankly, the gear that is on the cutting edge is probably too fringe for me to find useful.  More importantly, I just don't think that's the question at hand here.  I'm sure I'm not in the minority of people on this thread who are not putting up cutting edge routes, and are not deciding what is most useful on their rack based on that!  If you are, more power to you, but it's not a good argument for claiming the "desire will be small" for gear like hexes.

As for my speculation about why you don't seem to get my argument about why hexes give me more options - that was simply speculation on my part, born from my own experience with gear that *I* don't carry.  Of course you would know your situation best.  I think normally how this sort of thing works is that we share our experiences and look for common ground.  Maybe that's not your cup of tea, but no need to get huffy about it, LOL.

GO

reboot wrote: Yeah, they absolutely won't go many places cams will.

Consider hexes need to be placed in a constriction, they tend to take away good jams (since "jamming" a constriction is way easier than in parallel crack), unless you consider stepping on a hex or having your jam supported by your pro free climbing.

Maybe that's the reason competent climbers "graduate" away from hexes? On a harder multi-pitch, that's the kind of terrain that one can easily run it out a bit to another placement.

Sooooo......just place at the waist dude.  If you are in a situation where you can place gear below your jams it's almost always going to be the way to be most efficient on said climb.  It's only in smaller finger cracks and only closer to the ground that I find that you really need to place above your hands.

I always think it's a sign of a good, successful troll when someone posts once and gets 5 pages of responses without a single follow up comment of their own. 

reboot wrote:

BTW, I used my hexes when I was learning to be competent in the former sense on moderate terrain, but since they started collecting dust after the first year or so, I can't really recommend them in good conscience.

I have to jump in on this one because MP is being a strange echo chamber that I haven't seen in reality.. I have a set of metolius hexes that have been passed down from one new leader to the next (think I'm the 5th owner), they haven't seen the light of day after my first year climbing. I also have a set of green-blue DMM torque nuts that I thought would be great for alpine. routes, they sit in the gear box also. Sometimes I'll bring the blue one along because I rarely bring cams above a #2.

The only places I see hexes used are on mountain project, routes below 5.8 and mixed climbing when ice in the crack is the issue.

Also placing a hex in the constriction blocks the most relaxed foot jam, it really just gets in the way. 

There are places where cams work and hexes don't.  There are places where hexes work and cams don't.

Figure out what your needs are based on what you climb and select your gear accordingly.

On a side note, if you learned on the old school BD hexes, any of the curved style like the Metolius or DMM ones set far, far better, imo.

reboot wrote:

You know that does not solve the problem: if you have a good constriction, that's where you'll want to hang out with either your hand or foot to place gear; you don't artificially climb higher to a more difficult stance and then place something at your waist unless you have to.

Sorry, I meant climbs where there are very frequent constrictions.  That is often the norm for the hand cracks at my home crag so I almost always get a chance to sit in one good jam and set a hex at the previous good jam.

They are de rigeur for trad mixed snow and ice routes.  Passive pro is always more bomber than mechanical pro, but less fast or convenient than the camming that is more desirable on harder routes.