Buck Rio wrote: I used to carry a full set of BD Hexes, but I now carry just 4 of the DMM Torque nuts and am much happier. They really do fit where cams do not, plus they are light and color coded to match the range of a DMM Dragon II.
Where do they fit that cams do not? Similar to places where tricams work that cams don't?
Where do they fit that cams do not? Similar to places where tricams work that cams don't?
Cracks that flare inward are a good example. Cams can walk inward and umbrella out. With a hex, many times you can slot them into the flare and have a really bomber piece.
Where do they fit that cams do not? Similar to places where tricams work that cams don't?
I don't know anything about tri-cams, I can't stand them. One place that hexes rule is in icy cracks, you whack them in with your hammer. Some places I've used hexes would probably work with an offset cam, but I don't have any of those. In fact just because a cam will fit somewhere doesn't mean that it is a better placement.
A lack of vision to alternate placements is usually why people don't like hexes. I don't always carry them, but they have a place and are cheaper to leave in case of bailage.
Ron O
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Jun 18, 2018
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middle of nowhere, southern…
· Joined Apr 2018
· Points: 0
Have IQs declined?
IT DEPENDS ON THE CLIMB!
Some routes have cracks that suck them up and, despite young climbers' over-reliance on spring loaded cams (WHICH WALK), make them the best choice, whereas pure cracks like IC tend to spit them out.
One rack does NOT fit all climbs. Kind of like in Ronin when DeNiro says, "It's a toolbox."
That said, carrying a few for bail anchors is not a bad idea.
David K
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Jun 18, 2018
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The Road, Sometimes Chattan…
· Joined Jan 2017
· Points: 434
Optimistic wrote:
Where do they fit that cams do not?
Hexes are basically big nuts as far as I'm concerned--I place them in constrictions. Cams don't work in big constrictions where a hex works for the same reasons small cams don't work in small constrictions where a nut works. I never place hexes actively--if the crack is parallel, a cam will usually work a lot better.
Hexes nest. BD hex 10 and 11 can substitute a BD camalot #3-#6 in certain places. They are also more bomber IMO (no moving parts) and I'll place them any chance I get. But they are annoying as all hell, very good to have if there are bears in the area.
Ron O
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Jun 18, 2018
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middle of nowhere, southern…
· Joined Apr 2018
· Points: 0
"Hexes are basically big nuts" The things I have lived to see,..
Hexes are basically big nuts as far as I'm concerned--I place them in constrictions. Cams don't work in big constrictions where a hex works for the same reasons small cams don't work in small constrictions where a nut works. I never place hexes actively--if the crack is parallel, a cam will usually work a lot better.
Yeah I think I got a little too fixated on the word "fit" when the spirit of it was really "work/function". I guess I've found that in a situation where there's a big open constriction there's almost always a crack above or below it that will take either a cam or a smaller nut. I have occasionally been in situations though where it would be really, really nice to have a piece that would fit into a small, shallow solution pocket...but I almost never carry tricams either.
However, this thread has now definitely reminded me of all the times over the last 38 years of climbing that I've said, "crap, we have to go home, all the cracks flare inwardly and will only take hexes and not cams." Oh wait, I've never said that.
David K
·
Jun 18, 2018
·
The Road, Sometimes Chattan…
· Joined Jan 2017
· Points: 434
Optimistic wrote:
Yeah I think I got a little too fixated on the word "fit" when the spirit of it was really "work/function". I guess I've found that in a situation where there's a big open constriction there's almost always a crack above or below it that will take either a cam or a smaller nut. I have occasionally been in situations though where it would be really, really nice to have a piece that would fit into a small, shallow solution pocket...but I almost never carry tricams either.
However, this thread has now definitely reminded me of all the times over the last 38 years of climbing that I've said, "crap, we have to go home, all the cracks flare inwardly and will only take hexes and not cams." Oh wait, I've never said that.
Well, yeah. I don't carry hexes around here. :)
I've liked hexes a lot in sandstone cracks, though. Instead of carrying up a double rack of cams, I'll carry a single rack of cams and a set of large hexes, which is much lighter. Like you said, a cam will often fit directly above a passive hex placement, but if you are likely to have the option between the cam and the hex, I'll carry the lighter piece.
Ever since the DMM Torque nuts came out, I ditched the BD hexes. I like the sling, and they are engineered in a way that allows multiple slotting options. Whoever worked on developing these was very clever. They still don't work as good as a cam in a parallel sided cracks though.
My rack is limited, and consists of a .4 C4 to the sliver C4, with doubles in red-blue. So I would rather place a hex if there is a good placement from a good stance and in anchors, and save the cams for the harder bits.
Size #10 and #11 hexes partially cover the same range as a #3 and #4. But not even the entire range. To get that you need to throw in a #9 hex. If you weigh and compare both cams to both hexes you wind up with it being just about a wash. Which is why I asked the question in the first place. I ran into this fact after accepting the common wisdom that "hexes are lighter" for years but while I was racking up for a climb I was holding both equivalent cams and hexes and realized they felt just about as heavy. Definitely the hexes were not significantly lighter.
I'd gladly bail off a hex. And I use them as anchors setting up topropes. But I'd rather have a cam in most situations.
Size #10 and #11 hexes partially cover the same range as a #3 and #4. But not even the entire range. To get that you need to throw in a #9 hex. If you weigh and compare both cams to both hexes you wind up with it being just about a wash. Which is why I asked the question in the first place. I ran into this fact after accepting the common wisdom that "hexes are lighter" for years but while I was racking up for a climb I was holding both equivalent cams and hexes and realized they felt just about as heavy. Definitely the hexes were not significantly lighter.
I'd gladly bail off a hex. And I use them as anchors setting up topropes. But I'd rather have a cam in most situations.
My hexes are all slung with Dyneema, and are lighter than a cam....the wired hexes are junk, in my opinion. Even my old BD hexes had Titan cord and were lighter than a cam.
My hexes are all slung with Dyneema, and are lighter than a cam....the wired hexes are junk, in my opinion. Even my old BD hexes had Titan cord and were lighter than a cam.
I don't doubt that torque nuts are lighter than BDs. According to WeighMyRack the big torque nut is 5.15 ounces. The range listed for it is either the upper half of a #2 C4 or the smaller half of a #3 C4 range. If you assume it's subbing for a #3 I suppose that's a 2 ounce savings, but you lose a lot of the upper range of the blue c4. If you assume it's covering for a #2 they're about the same weight.
I don't doubt that torque nuts are lighter than BDs. According to WeighMyRack the big torque nut is 5.15 ounces. The range listed for it is either the upper half of a #2 C4 or the smaller half of a #3 C4 range. If you assume it's subbing for a #3 I suppose that's a 2 ounce savings, but you lose a lot of the upper range of the blue c4. If you assume it's covering for a #2 they're about the same weight.
and they also don't require a quick draw, just a biner.
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