New climber that's owning it!

A bit patronizing -- like something that could have been written about a woman back in the '70s?

John Barritt wrote:
So.....here's my take away. When she reads this she's going to kick your butt..... ;)

wendy weiss wrote:A bit patronizing -- like something that could have been written about a woman back in the '70s?

YES, AND YES.

I can relate to the excitement of a new climber.

But I somehow get a strong whiff of a troll from this one.

wow such snark....

OP just wants to share his girl's progress and enthusiasm. If it's not your cup of tea, just move on.

to the OP, great job. I'm that pasty pale person that the entire outdoors wants to murder, so I'm mostly in gym on the "kid routes" (or outside in layers with no skin showing) but I have a teenager that's rocking it with her climbs (and school too!), so I totally understand and support your enthusiasm. 

It is a well known fact that, “the best climber is the one having the most fun.” Sounds like you two are rising to the top of the ever enlarging heap!
 It really is odd how snarky and just plain nasty some of the Mountain Project members can be.
 If you get out to Utah, look me up, and I’ll take you out to the crags. The goal will be to have fun!

Peter Lenz wrote: It is a well known fact that, “the best climber is the one having the most fun.” Sounds like you two are rising to the top of the ever enlarging heap!
 It really is odd how snarky and just plain nasty some of the Mountain Project members can be.
 If you get out to Utah, look me up, and I’ll take you out to the crags. The goal will be to have fun!

That's a great offer and we will do should we make it there. Thanks!

wendy weiss wrote: A bit patronizing -- like something that could have been written about a woman back in the '70s?

I read it to her before I hit post. She laughed. She's awesome and I chose to highlight that. She was afraid of heights and worked hard to overcome it. I've been climbing off and on since I was nine years old. I'm just another Joe that uses his height to make up for lack of ability. Thanks for your perspective though.  

Lena chita wrote:
YES, AND YES.

I can relate to the excitement of a new climber.

But I somehow get a strong whiff of a troll from this one.

No troll. She's loving climbing. We're making lots of new friends and they're all great and encouraging. It's a shared activity that can transcend political/social narratives and foster mutual respect, admiration and support. What's not to love there? 

Forrest Halley wrote:

No troll. She's loving climbing. We're making lots of new friends and they're all great and encouraging. It's a shared activity that can transcend political/social narratives and foster mutual respect, admiration and support. What's not to love there? 

Nice level head Forrest... Good luck to you and your girlfriend. Stay safe.

That's beautiful, Man. Best to you both.

A word of advice buddy: start training. Because she will leave you for someone stronger and better looking soon if you don't keep it up. Good luck kid. 

We all start where she is so good for you guys.  Enjoy the journey and pay back when you get good enough.

Discovering a new passion is awesome, and there's definitely that honeymoon period where the learning curve is steep and almost every day brings new accomplishments you never before even imagined possible. It's great that you're both so excited about climbing, and the beginner's forum is the right place for it on this site.

The thing that is off to me is that in a post about the excitement of learning to climb, you start off with a description of your girlfriend's physical characteristics before anything else. It's completely unrelated to her learning to climb, conquering fears, or anything else in the rest of the post. Given that context, the tone it set for the rest of the post felt more like bragging about a trophy than anything else. That might (or might not) be part of what John, Wendy, and Lena were feeling. Reading the rest of your post, it seems you're genuinely psyched for and proud of her, but that just makes the physical description in your opener feel even more out of place. If you're a self-reflective type of guy, it may be worth thinking about why you felt the need to describe her build, hair color, and eye color before sharing her climbing story. And by extension, what your motivation was for sharing this story at all.

Really glad you're both enjoying a new activity together, hope you have many fun adventures to come!

Wow. Ladies, I didn't get "trophy" out of this at all. Substitute "friend", "son", or "daughter" for girl friend and see how that reads.

Yes, it could be embarrassing enthusiasm, if the person is shy, but he asked and she was good with posting.

The description of blonde and blue eyed included a sunscreen reference. All simply to say not outdoorsy, perhaps?

What I really hear? A partner who is super proud of a friend. A partner who is stoked to see their friend conquer fears. A partner who will cheer you on, get great satisfaction when you send, and, in turn, will be upping their game also because of your stoke.

Congratulations to both of you!

Best, Helen

Old lady H wrote: Wow. Ladies, I didn't get "trophy" out of this at all. Substitute "friend", "son", or "daughter" for girl friend and see how that reads.

Yes, it could be embarrassing enthusiasm, if the person is shy, but he asked and she was good with posting.

The description of blonde and blue eyed included a sunscreen reference. All simply to say not outdoorsy, perhaps?

What I really hear? A partner who is super proud of a friend. A partner who is stoked to see their friend conquer fears. A partner who will cheer you on, get great satisfaction when you send, and, in turn, will be upping their game also because of your stoke.

Congratulations to both of you!

Best, Helen

Hey Helen,

I hear all the same things you do - excitement, pride, and support. I also hear something that feels out of place and off. If you skip the second sentence entirely, and go to "Heat is not her friend", it effectively expresses the "not outdoorsy" sentiment and the physical characteristics are still irrelevant. Since when is a medium build, blonde hair, or blue eyes correlated to "not outdoorsy", anyway? That's not a stereotype I've ever heard. Substitute "daughter" for "girlfriend" and it just becomes, to me, even more unnecessary and odd.

I offered this up only as a possible explanation for a couple of the reactions on here. I suggested reflection and consideration, nothing more. And I continue to wish them both all the fun and adventures in climbing together. 

Pics of the girlfriend?

Em Cos wrote:

Hey Helen,

I hear all the same things you do - excitement, pride, and support. I also hear something that feels out of place and off. If you skip the second sentence entirely, and go to "Heat is not her friend", it effectively expresses the "not outdoorsy" sentiment and the physical characteristics are still irrelevant. Since when is a medium build, blonde hair, or blue eyes correlated to "not outdoorsy", anyway? That's not a stereotype I've ever heard. Substitute "daughter" for "girlfriend" and it just becomes, to me, even more unnecessary and odd.

I offered this up only as a possible explanation for a couple of the reactions on here. I suggested reflection and consideration, nothing more. And I continue to wish them both all the fun and adventures in climbing together. 

Thanks for the reply, em. I just wanted to throw my reaction in too, now we have almost every female who.posts regularly on here. Sheesh. We all agree on the stoke at least, and I do totally see the other side. It just didn't strike me that way, that's all.

I love being there when new climbers try it out. Recently, I participated in my gyms comp. They had fresh routes, 38 of them, merely numbered, no grades. Easiest to hardest. So, 1 was probably a 5.2 if such a thing exists.

The easiest routes were back in a corner, and I could see the belayers had absolutely nothing to do, so I decided to climb those. A quite young girl shows up, and her mom talks her into climbing up a little ways. She is clearly scared. So, I jump on the route right next to her, cheering her on, move by move, and she gets up about 1/3 of the wall. I talk her through the commands ("you're in charge! You tell your belayer when you want down!"). High fives, hugs all around, everyone is smiling. Two belayers, two coaches, one little girl.

Later, the girl and mom find me. "She has something to tell you" Girl, shyly, but smiling: "I went to the top". Big grin. I take her over to the staffer who.set those easy routes, so she could also tell him. More grins all around.

Neither of us got any trophies that day, but it was the best part of the whole day, for me. This, the climbing community, is what will keep me in it forever, no matter my ability.

Including you people. Thanks, all. You do actually help me keep at it, even from afar. It's great to hear the store stories from others, too!

Best, OLH

Em Cos wrote:

Hey Helen,

I hear all the same things you do - excitement, pride, and support. I also hear something that feels out of place and off. If you skip the second sentence entirely, and go to "Heat is not her friend", it effectively expresses the "not outdoorsy" sentiment and the physical characteristics are still irrelevant. Since when is a medium build, blonde hair, or blue eyes correlated to "not outdoorsy", anyway? That's not a stereotype I've ever heard. Substitute "daughter" for "girlfriend" and it just becomes, to me, even more unnecessary and odd.

I offered this up only as a possible explanation for a couple of the reactions on here. I suggested reflection and consideration, nothing more. And I continue to wish them both all the fun and adventures in climbing together. 

The blonde hair and blue eyes description could be to indicate that she is "fair-skinned" and (sun)burns easily. To imply there is something wrong or sexist about mentioning that is a stretch.

Em Cos wrote: The thing that is off to me is that in a post about the excitement of learning to climb, you start off with a description of your girlfriend's physical characteristics before anything else. It's completely unrelated to her learning to climb, conquering fears, or anything else in the rest of the post. Given that context, the tone it set for the rest of the post felt more like bragging about a trophy than anything else.

Ugh... Really? Booooooooo

I agree with Em.

Totally get and appreciate the new climber stoke.

For the love of me can't figure out why we needed to know about her build, hair and eye color, skin tone, etc.

1) When has "sunburns easily" ever been a valid excuse not to do something outside, anyway? Find somewhere with shade? Wear sunscreen?

2) Think of how weird it would be if you guys started out a trip report with "so I went out to the crag with my buddy, a kind of thick guy with medium tan skin, green eyes and rusty brown hair".

It's weird. It's even weirder when using it as the lede for a story to strangers about your girlfriend and seems to change the tone from stoke to "despite her shortcomings look what she managed to do!". Just because she didn't object doesn't mean it's any less weird.

As reboot mentions, though, it's probably just a case of poorly chosen words and unnecessary dialogue.