Personal anchor survey

Hi MP community,

We're conducting a survey to see what type of personal anchor systems people are using. By quantifying the types of personal anchor systems being used and the safety standards associated with each type, we are hoping to assess the safety profile of personal anchor systems in our climbing community. Thanks for your contribution!

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSe9HRSlSf-tqOkmApqzvKi6oyTpUVDIobthSxcBNaPKcdKRPA/viewform?usp=sf_link

Who is “we”

Not sure this will be a very valid survey.  One can take is as many times as one wants.  There's no indication of experience level either.

And what do you consider "safety standards"?

t.farrell wrote: Who is “we”

Seconded - and what will the data be used for?

t.farrell wrote: Who is “we”

There are a bunch of possible responses missing:

1. Purcell Prusik
2. Cord
3. Cord with Kong Slyde
4. Petzl Connect-adjust
5. Petzl Dual Connect-adjust

Also, for number of connection points: if it's a hanging belay or a narrow ledge, I'll use 2 points of connection. But if it's a very wide ledge (let's say >= 5 feet wide) I'll treat "I'm not going to be an idiot and fall of this giant ledge" as a connection point and only use one point of connection (obviously this only works if I'm following or belaying off the anchor).

Yeah same question. I use a nylon sling and clip in one locker, but when I’m cleaning an anchor I’m also always on belay. So I consider it redundant. 

Sorry about the missing details.

1) Who is we?
"We" refers to a group of medical students from Hofstra University that are going into Wilderness Medicine.

2) This doesn't look official?
This initial survey does not constitute our official data collection and will not be used to draw any conclusions. This is a primary survey that is aimed to get a basic understanding of what is being used. From the information we get from this survey, we would then sit down and draw up a more detailed and thorough study protocol (consider it like trying a few samples of ice cream before you commit to a scoop). Yes, not all personal anchor systems are represented, for those not represented we would encourage you to select "other".

3) What is the data going to be used for?
Our plan is to take the information we gather from the official questionnaire (again not from this primary survey) and cross reference it with the factory recommended use of each type of climbing gear that is used for the respected anchor system type. The grand objective is to see whether climbing equipment is being used appropriately. 

What is commonly called a "daisy chain" and what is commonly called a "PAS" are two different things, and "18mm nylon runner" is very specific for such a short list that omits so many common options. How will looking up the factory recommended use of a rope tell you whether people are tying into the anchor safely? How do you define "points of attachment" - does that refer to attachment between yourself and the masterpoint, or between the masterpoint and the rock? You're not going to find, for example, anywhere in a rope manufacturer's included literature a required number of points in an anchor or how to tie into it safely.

https://sterlingrope.com/images/downloads/Care_Use_Guidelines_DynamicRopes.pdf

This survey is not going to accomplish your stated goal. I'm also curious what the application is to Wilderness Medicine of whether people are using specific pieces of climbing gear according to manufacturer recommendations?

Question 2) How many points of attachment do you use? Your choice is either 1 or 2 or 3 or 4.

Correct answer: Depends. One this ledge, where I just got up to following the leader and am now going to grab the rack and head up, 1 although zero is common. On that other ledge, 2, and on that next one further up - the hanging stance where I will lead to and then be belaying a leader, 1 (rare), 2 (common), but maybe 3.

Is PAS thong on this list? If not, I’m not even clicking the link. 

Glad you're going into wilderness medecine.

Sending out a survey without a header identifying the organization and some text describing the purpose is something middle-schoolers might do. As medical students, you should be holding yourself to a much higher standard.  Does your institution have any idea you are doing this?  Innocuous as this survey might seem, institutions have all kinds of protocols and permissions in place when surveys are conducted by people associated with the school.

I can't see this survey resulting in any kind of useful information.  You haven't provided appropriate options and you haven't accounted for situation-dependent ranges of behavior, so the responses can't possibly reflect even a hazy version of climbing reality.  Moreover, the question of "appropriate usage" is enormously far from clear-cut and in many cases subject to individual interpretations without an underlying consensus.  Even ignoring that reality, attempting to cross-reference your data to "factory recommended use" will lead nowhere in many cases.  For example, find a "factory recommended use" that describes how many anchor points you should clip an 18mm nylon sling to.

But let's forget all that for moment.  Suppose you carry out your plan and discover that, say, 75% of climbers make "inappropriate use" (according to manufacturer's standards if they exist in the requred context) of their gear at least some of the time.  What exactly do you then do with this result?   In other words, once you've obtained "data" and extrapolated "results,"  what use will it be to the practice of wilderness medecine?

I suggest shelving this premature and inadequate attempt and doing a whole lot more due diligence before the next version, if there is ever to be one.

Guys... he’s clearly assisting his 5th grade son with a project report about climbing and needs our help!
Just kidding... all joking aside, I filled out the survey. Hope it helps. Now interested in the results! Post links to final pleaseee.

Speaking more as a data guy than a climber, I think you'd be better off taking free-form text responses and having a human classify them afterwards. This should be feasible for any number of responses less than "thousands".

Noah Yetter wrote: Speaking more as a data guy than a climber, I think you'd be better off taking free-form text responses and having a human classify them afterwards. This should be feasible for any number of responses less than "thousands".

+1

How are you connecting your runner and your rope (in my case)? Is it to one peice or to the masterpoint? Are you using a clove hitch or a figure 8? Is it sport or trad?