Euro wave hitting: via ferrata

Mammoth Mountain ski resort is building via ferrata climbing routes. Website says they'll open them late this summer.
Not only on their website, saw a billboard for Via Ferrata while driving on rt 395.

I love climbing VF routes in Europe, so this got my attention. There are hundreds and hundreds of VF sites all around Europe (not only in the mountains). In terms of number of participants, might be the most popular type of climbing there.

Many ski resorts in Europe have built via ferrata routes (with the hope that lots of people will purchase a lift ticket to reach it, instead of hiking up all the way from the bottom parking). But Mammoth Mt seems to be offering only guided VF climbing, so presumably they will charge more ... to cover the rental of the via ferrata kit (which normally includes a climbing harness), and fee for the guide-leader, in addition to any lift or other mechanical access to the climbing routes.

Website says they will have six routes at different difficulty levels. Good idea, but I'll guess they're not my favorite style of hardware design or rock type. And surely climbing a VF route under supervision of a guide is not my style accustomed from Europe (where 99.9% of VF routes require neither an access free nor a guide-person).

"via ferrata" is a climbing route with sections protected by a steel cable attached by steel posts screwed or driven into the rock. Normally you climb it wearing a special "via ferrata kit", which is normally a climbing harness with two leashes/lanyards, each leash with locking carabiner attached ... with a shock-absorption device (sort of like a Yates Screamer) making the connection between the harness and the leashes. Then while climbing you normally have at least one of the carabiners clipped to the steel cable, so if you fall you only go down to a few feet lower than the closest cable-attach-to-rock post. But most VF climbers also grab the cable for Aid, and many VF routes provide other steel hardware (usually rungs) for hands or feet for Aid.

I think Mammoth Mt would have like the sixth VF site in USA, second VF in the state of California.

Ken

Hum...not sure this is a good idea.  Europe has been a climbing for ages and is well steeped in the sport.  Not here.  There are so many clueless idiots that will get hurt/die, so then comes litigation and that I think, will cause access issues for "real" climbers.  I am not opposed to VF on approaches to crags, in that "real" climbers are more in tune with the risks of steep terrain with metal steps.

Eh Whistler has guided VF. In fact you can't access them without a guide

this is a great idea all you people should climb the nice clean walls at the ski center, avoid the dirt and mess and uncertainty of the outdoors. All routes will be bolted and a waitress waiting for your drink order after you send. What could be better? 

I've done a couple of via ferrata in Italy, and had fun on them, but there's a different wilderness ethic there than here.  Let me put it this way, there is no wilderness ethic there.  If these are installed on some choss on the ski hill then I suppose that's one way of limiting the infection rate.  I'd hate to see the "mountain are a playground so let's tame them" attitude spread over here.  

Just curious, what is the land ownership status of that area of Mammoth Mountain?

Via Ferrata's are awesome in Europe. Fun, relaxed way to enjoy the exposure of climbing when you want to have a day outside in the mountains and take it easy.

They even have dedicated guide books for routes all over Switzerland and Italy.

There's room for both rock and VF....but like other's have said, the culture over there is a but more responsible. Curious to see how this works out. I hope we can be mature and have more Via Ferrata here in CA.

Heading to the Brenta Dolomites in July for 5 days of Via with the wife and really looking forward to it. I have yet to give it a try, but it seems like just another great way to hike and get really high up, so why not? Climbing is great and I'll venture that VF is amazing too.

I will be going to Mammoth to climb in August so it will be nice to try out the via if its finished by the time we arrive. It will be great to compare.

On that note, I am having a difficult time finding info on the accessibility of the Brenta Group. If anyone who has spent time there wouldn't mind dropping me a line so I can bounce some questions off of you it would be appreciated. Thanks.

I just did my first Via in Telluride, it was AWESOME. You can go guided or un guided - it's on public land, Forest Service. Super rad. Plus, my husband who hates climbing liked it too, so we may be in search of wild via's down the road. 

I think it's a great idea. More people get to experience the mountains, Mammoth makes some money, etc.

Christian George wrote: The mountains belong to everyone, not just climbers.
Rail against this future if you want, but it’s hard not to come off as an elitist dick if you do.

Nice to know your willingness to entertain other's opinions. Here's my take.  Via ferrata are fun, and so are restaurant/bars at the top of a mountain where you can take a tram up and enjoy a cold one.  Having said that, if I want to enjoy that, I'll go to Europe.  I don't need to recreate the experience here.  I go to the mountains to get away from that.  Maybe the leave no trace ethic no longer exists in climbing.  Generally speaking though, given the ethic toward minimizing the use of bolts and other fixed anchors, how do you accept cables and platforms installed onto the rock.  

If we're talking some choss pile on private property that already surrounded by infrastructure.  Fine, no problem.  You can't argue that it a wilderness area.  In fact, people go there because it's not a wilderness area.  However, I personally don't want to see this become a trend.  Just my two cents.

Christian George wrote:

Just more elitism from you. 

What about people that can’t afford to go to Europe?
And no one ever said anything about wilderness areas, that is obviously off limits. Not all public lands are designated wilderness, the vast majority is BLM land. 
And these aren’t about a leave no trace ethic of climbing, these are about providing an experience for the rest of the population that are not climbers. 
Get over yourself, the rest of us have. 

You seem like a troll; either that or you're just really immature and can't have a conversation without getting triggered.  

Elitism?  Why because I like wilderness areas or because I bust my chops to save money to afford a trip to Europe?  No one ever said that wilderness areas were off limits.  Maybe you we're thinking that, but when other talked about the possibility of them proving popular over here, no one discussed what or what would not be OK.  I've already said that if this is on a ski hill then no big deal. Why the butt hurt? 

So sad to see this, yet another MP thread, go to the dark side.  We can have differences of opinion without being testy, except maybe the  "Pres.".

MM is on a US Forrest service lease.

Guy Keesee wrote: MM is on a US Forrest service lease.

Any idea what that means for access?   From what I understand, a lot of the ski resorts around here are also on USFS land and you are completely entitled to be on the mountain even if you didnt pay for a lift pass.  You just cant ride their lifts.... how would that apply to a via ferrata?  Do they have the legal authority to require a guide?  

Dan G0D5H411 wrote:

Any idea what that means for access?   From what I understand, a lot of the ski resorts around here are also on USFS land and you are completely entitled to be on the mountain even if you didnt pay for a lift pass.  You just cant ride their lifts.... how would that apply to a via ferrata?  Do they have the legal authority to require a guide?  

My understanding (which could be wrong) is that private companies, in this case mammoth, pay the USFS to use the land and the essentially make it "private land".  Much like when you get a lease from a landlord for your apartment, it comes with some rules about what you can and cant do, but besides that, you can do pretty much whenever you want.  I believe this works a similar way, so mammoth probably would be within their rights to require a guide.  Just a guess.

Dan G0D5H411 wrote:

Any idea what that means for access?   From what I understand, a lot of the ski resorts around here are also on USFS land and you are completely entitled to be on the mountain even if you didnt pay for a lift pass.  You just cant ride their lifts.... how would that apply to a via ferrata?  Do they have the legal authority to require a guide?  

Not at all accurate.  Uphill access is blocked or severely restricted at most ski resorts on USFS land.  

Matt Inoue wrote:

Not at all accurate.  Uphill access is blocked or severely restricted at most ski resorts on USFS land.  

Not at all?  Please provide details instead of a blanket statement. Just to name a few around this area, the following resorts can all be skinned, for free, during ski season: A Basin, Crested Butte, Loveland, Powderhorn, Steamboat, Vail and Beaver Creek, Winter Park, Wolf Creek, Aspen, Cooper, and those are just the ones I personally know.   This doesn't even begin to touch the access rules applicable to hiking/biking/etc during the off-season, hence my question for the legality of mandatory guides.

Dan G0D5H411 wrote:

Not at all?  Please provide details instead of a blanket statement. 

Yup. Some ones on USFS that don't allow it/ restrict it in California off the top of my head.

Sierra at Tahoe, Northstar at Tahoe, Heavenly is limited, Mammoth makes you pay, Squaw, Alpine Meadows (yes both squaw and alpine partially sit on some public land you can see a forestry sign under the Shirley lift), Shasta Ski Park, and Sugarbowl (has gone back and forth depending on the year).

Did this a few days ago above Innsbruck.

It's mindless, great fun. Like easy scrambling, but you can go up chossy faces inaccessible otherwise.

And they sometimes put in entirely unnecessary cable bridges.