Yet another solo TR thread

I've been mostly solo TRing for the past year, probably over 100 pitches by now.  I've read a lot of threads here on the various setups and devices that people use, and I've played around with various configurations to see what works and doesn't work for me.  I've had the obligatory near-death experience (using one microtraxion with no backup and noticing it locked open while I was climbing).

My current setup is to use two microtraxions on a single semi-static rope.  I use a chest harness to keep both of them oriented vertically at belly-button height.  Both of them are modified so the "lock open" feature does not work (ie, I used a Dremmel to file down the nub that allows the cam to lock open).  This setup works really really well: it feeds by itself flawlessly, I have fallen on it countless times without a problem, and the wear on the rope is nominal despite these being toothed devices.

There are two main problems I have commonly with this setup, however:

1. It can often be hard to transfer to rappel if I'm hanging in space.  One of the microtraxions is easy to unweight (the backup device) but the one my weight is on is pretty hard to unweight in order to load-transfer to my rap device.  
2. If I want to work a harder section of a climb, lowering is a major pain (because I have to transfer to a rap device, see (1) above, lower, then re-rig my self-belay).

What do people use for TR soloing where you want to lower frequently?  I don't imagine there is a setup that allows easy lowering, feeds well hands-free when climbing, and isn't super sketchy?

I noticed Brad is just hand-feeding a grigri when he practiced Hairstyles (in the film "Safety Third").  Honnold used a single microtraxion when practicing Moonlight Buttress.  Tommy used a traxion and maybe a backup when soloing on the Dawn Wall.  Eric Klimt was just using a grigri on Moonlight.  So these do seem like the two predominant setups, though I know some folks use other combos.

if I’m on a pitch short enough to have two strands of rope hanging (eg shorter than half a rope length) and I desire to lower and redo sections of the route, then I do grigri on one strand and microtraxion on the other.  Hand feeding the grigri (and the associated lock off required) feels similar to the requirements of clipping / placing gear, and so I consider it a feature and not a bug (or at least that’s what I tell myself).  The micro trax doesn’t require this as much (particularly if the strands are weighted) and so I never feel like I am getting into situations where I’m in danger of a long fall due to slack building up in the system.

If I only have one strand of rope, then I have found using a grigri and another backup device together to be clunky and obtrusive.  That said I am not comfortable doing just the grigri personally.  

I’m sure others do something else more clever but this is my system for working sections.

John RB wrote: Question: What do people use for TR soloing where you want to lower frequently?  I don't imagine there is a setup that allows easy lowering, feeds well hands-free when climbing, and isn't super sketchy?

Vergo/Cinch works. Use it as the top/primary device with a microtraxion below for backup. I used this setup a lot last summer (with a Vergo) to work sequences on sport projects. Eventually the Vergo started having the usual recall issues and I sent it back.

The big advantage of this system is that your primary (weighted device) is the Vergo, so lowering is super easy- just disengage the micro and rap normally on the Vergo. The Vergo feeds way better than a gri-gri, but not as smooth as a mini-traxion. You do need to weight the rope end with a couple of pounds to get it to feed hands free. A liter of water and a few quickdraws hanging in space on the end of the rope iss usually enough. With this it feeds hands-free (most of the time), but you do feel some drag as you climb. I would not trust the Vergo by itself as a 1-device system, but with the microtraxion backup it feels very safe (I have a lot of trust in the micro). The Vergo isn't available anymore (for now?), but the same system would in theory work the same with a Cinch.

That said, even if this system were available now I probably would stick with my current system- a roll-n-lock as the top/primary and a microtraxion below as backup. Pretty similar to using two micros. I eventually got tired of the couple of pounds of drag felt from the Vergo, which made an annoying difference on limit-level projects. Rapping on the Vergo sucked as well due to the difficulty controlling speed with the handle. The smoother feeding of a two-pulley system and the smoother rappel with the gri-gri, to me, are worth the inconvenience of switching bewtween the devices.

Another option is the Unicender. I haven't used it, but it sounds like it could be the holy grail of a device that allows smooth feeding and easy rapping. Be prepared to spend some $$$$$. https://www.rockexotica.com/unicender/

Some people use the cinch/vergo as their primary and a traxion as their secondary for this reason. Trango highly discourages this use, but there are mixed opinions whether it's just liability concerns or if there are some substantial reasons not to use the cinch/vergo for TR soloing. IMO, if you're using a backup (ie traxion) then it doesn't really matter as much but surely others will disagree.

Another thing, extending your primary device on a sling may make transferring to rappel easier because then you can put your rappel device below the traxion and then take up enough slack that you're weighting the belay device and not the trax. 

jaredj wrote: if I’m on a pitch short enough to have two strands of rope hanging (eg shorter than half a rope length) and I desire to lower and redo sections of the route, then I do grigri on one strand and microtraxion on the other.  Hand feeding the grigri (and the associated lock off required) feels similar to the requirements of clipping / placing gear, and so I consider it a feature and not a bug (or at least that’s what I tell myself).  The micro trax doesn’t require this as much (particularly if the strands are weighted) and so I never feel like I am getting into situations where I’m in danger of a long fall due to slack building up in the system.

If I only have one strand of rope, then I have found using a grigri and another backup device together to be clunky and obtrusive.  That said I am not comfortable doing just the grigri personally.  

We're pretty similar.  I do the same on routes that are short enough.  And although the extra slack on the grigri strand is a pain, it's usually not so in-the-way that you can't work with it.  Here's a video of me using exactly the technique you describe: two strands, one with micros and the other with a hand-fed grigri: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSwe5kVARy8

I feel that hand-feeding the grigri is much harder than clipping, however... I can clip a draw in 1-2 secs, but it can take 5-6 secs to pull in the slack between bolts.  That said, I also tell myself it's good training, and if I can do a route this way, then I figure I should be ready to lead it certainly!

So how do you lower to work a section?  I find that weighting my system, I'm still on the micro not the grigri, and transferring to the grigri is rough: as soon as you lift your body to get weight on the grigri, the micro sucks up rope too and takes some of your weight when you sag back on to the rope.  It's hard to fully unweight the micro to the point you can remove it.  And since I'm using two micros, it's unfortunately a pain to remove and re-rig my system when all I want to do is lower 5 feet. :(

John RB wrote:

We're pretty similar.  I do the same on routes that are short enough.  And although the extra slack on the grigri strand is a pain, it's usually not so in-the-way that you can't work with it.  Here's a video of me using exactly the technique you describe: two strands, one with micros and the other with a hand-fed grigri: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSwe5kVARy8

I feel that hand-feeding the grigri is much harder than clipping, however... I can clip a draw in 1-2 secs, but it can take 5-6 secs to pull in the slack between bolts.  That said, I also tell myself it's good training, and if I can do a route this way, then I figure I should be ready to lead it certainly!

So how do you lower to work a section?  I find that weighting my system, I'm still on the micro not the grigri, and transferring to the grigri is rough: as soon as you lift your body to get weight on the grigri, the micro sucks up rope too and takes some of your weight when you sag back on to the rope.  It's hard to fully unweight the micro to the point you can remove it.  And since I'm using two micros, it's unfortunately a pain to remove and re-rig my system when all I want to do is lower 5 feet. :(

You could clip a sling to the trax and stand in it while you take up slack with the gri. The weight would probably keep the trax from sliding up. Another option would be to try to unclip the trax after tying a catastrophe knot and then jug up a tiny bit on the grigri to retrieve the trax. 

JCM wrote:

Another option is the Unicender. I haven't used it, but it sounds like it could be the holy grail of a device that allows smooth feeding and easy rapping. Be prepared to spend some $$$$$. https://www.rockexotica.com/unicender/

The website says it's for 11mm-13mm ropes. Most of us haven't had ropes that size since many years ago. 

Another option is the Unicender. I haven't used it, but it sounds like it could be the holy grail of a device that allows smooth feeding and easy rapping. Be prepared to spend some $$$$$. https://www.rockexotica.com/unicender/

I've used the unicender doing arbor work. It's designed for 11-13mm ropes, and even on those it feeds almost too easy. I wouldn't recommend it as a TR device.

Interesting note regarding the unicender and rope diameter. That explains why the couple of people in my area known to use the unicender are also known to leave up absurdly fat fixed ropes.

Nate Tastic wrote: I have both those devices as well. What made you decide on one over the other as the primary/backup? Also, you're putting on your GriGri (Vergo/Cinch) after the fact in cases where you need to come down?

Microtrax vs. roll-n-lock: either is fine as primary vs backup, Doesn't really matter. Roll-n-lock is in theory a bit more rope-friendly (cam is ridged instead of toothed).

I have dozens of pitches using TR solo. I've tried GriGri and micro traxion on single strand (not simultaneously). Ever since I got SPRAT and IRATA level 1, I put a double figure 8 in the middle of a rope, which allows me to use the industry standard double rope system. I rig my main line with my micro traxion on a locking biner straight to belay loop; GriGri if it's a harder climb and I may want to lower to retry a crux. And a petzl shunt, extended with a daisy chain, on my secondary line. This has been my favorite, and most worry - free option. Countless falls. Works every time, thankfully.

JCM wrote:

Microtrax vs. roll-n-lock: either is fine as primary vs backup, Doesn't really matter. Roll-n-lock is in theory a bit more rope-friendly (cam is ridged instead of toothed).

I would recommend, if you are using both a toothed device and one with cam rails (like the roll'n'lock), using the toothed one as a primary and the cammed one as a secondary, especially if you're using a static or semi-static rope. If your primary device fails, it is reasonable to expect some slack to develop, creating a fall (albeit small) onto the secondary device.

Both devices with cam rails and toothed devices will sheath your rope if enough force is applied but this threshold appears to be smaller for toothed devices. In the very unlikely event that your primary fails and your secondary is shock loaded, the margin for error is a bit wider with the roll'n'lock.   

John RB wrote:
So how do you lower to work a section?  I find that weighting my system, I'm still on the micro not the grigri, and transferring to the grigri is rough: as soon as you lift your body to get weight on the grigri, the micro sucks up rope too and takes some of your weight when you sag back on to the rope.  It's hard to fully unweight the micro to the point you can remove it.  And since I'm using two micros, it's unfortunately a pain to remove and re-rig my system when all I want to do is lower 5 feet. :(

I do like Eli mentions and stand in a sling connected to the micro to get my weight on the grigri.  This works best for me if the micro is on a very short sling (like a long draw) instead of direct on the belay loop (such that it drags a little below me); the slack allows me to stand “above” it in a shoulder length sling.  

eli poss wrote:

I would recommend, if you are using both a toothed device and one with cam rails (like the roll'n'lock), using the toothed one as a primary and the cammed one as a secondary, especially if you're using a static or semi-static rope. If your primary device fails, it is reasonable to expect some slack to develop, creating a fall (albeit small) onto the secondary device.

Both devices with cam rails and toothed devices will sheath your rope if enough force is applied but this threshold appears to be smaller for toothed devices. In the very unlikely event that your primary fails and your secondary is shock loaded, the margin for error is a bit wider with the roll'n'lock.   

To me this seems like an unlikely safety concern that people geek about about on the internet, but in practice it is and not worth worrying about, so long as you are managing your system properly (i.e. don't let 20 feet of slack build up on your TR rope). Even if the primary device fails, you're just not generating enough force to "shock-load" the system. If you can find a single instance/accident of someone actually sheathing their rope with a cammed TR solo device in the field, I'd be happy to agree with you. Otherwise, not going to worry about it.

I have found, in practice, that repeated falls on a microtraxion can "pick" the sheath fibers a bit if the cam does not catch immediately. More of a cosmetic and durability concern than a safety concern. But the ridged cam on the rollnlock does not do it, hence the preference for that.

JCM wrote:

To me this seems like an unlikely safety concern that people geek about about on the internet, but in practice it is and not worth worrying about, so long as you are managing your system properly (i.e. don't let 20 feet of slack build up on your TR rope). Even if the primary device fails, you're just not generating enough force to "shock-load" the system. If you can find a single instance/accident of someone actually sheathing their rope with a cammed TR solo device in the field, I'd be happy to agree with you. Otherwise, not going to worry about it.

I have found, in practice, that repeated falls on a microtraxion can "pick" the sheath fibers a bit if the cam does not catch immediately. More of a cosmetic and durability concern than a safety concern. But the ridged cam on the rollnlock does not do it, hence the preference for that.

Normally, I would agree with you because I TR solo on a dynamic line and it seems inconceivable to generate those kinds of forces. I've seen the figure that a toothed ascender will sheath a rope around 4kN.

Now imagine somebody is TR soloing on a static line and their almost to the anchor when they fall about 1 ft before their secondary device catches them. Lets say they're 5 feet below the anchor so there's not a whole lot of rope in the system. I could be wrong but it seems within the realm of possibility of that fall generating at least 4kN.

Here's some info from Petzl from a slow pull test:

"The ropes used with the MICRO TRAXION can be damaged at loads between 4 kN and 5 kN (or more) depending on their diameter."

"Warning: the rope damage values, recorded during the dynamic tests (falls/shock loads) are generally lower than with slow-pull: the frame-loaded rope clamps are not designed to hold shock loads."

https://www.petzl.com/US/en/Professional/Static-tests?ProductName=MICRO-TRAXION&Familly=Pulleys

eli poss wrote:

Normally, I would agree with you because I TR solo on a dynamic line and it seems inconceivable to generate those kinds of forces. I've seen the figure that a toothed ascender will sheath a rope around 4kN.

Now imagine somebody is TR soloing on a static line and their almost to the anchor when they fall about 1 ft before their secondary device catches them. Lets say they're 5 feet below the anchor so there's not a whole lot of rope in the system. I could be wrong but it seems within the realm of possibility of that fall generating at least 4kN.

Which is why TR soloists should set their ropes as high as possible. If the bolts are below the lip but you intend to top out, anchor your rope all the way up in the trees above. Just pad the edge as needed (not a huge issue, as the rope is not moving significantly across anything). The goal is to always have rope above you.

Anecdotally, I've fallen 3-4 ft onto my microtraxion many times without any issue.  Rope stretch on a semi-static mitigated the impact somewhat of course, and the fall was pretty comfy (60ft of rope out helps).  The force, from my back-of-the-envelope, was less than 2kN.

These 3-4 ft falls happen when the rope isn't feeding and I am unable to let go to hand-feed.  Happens sometimes...

Gunkiemike wrote:

Which is why TR soloists should set their ropes as high as possible. If the bolts are below the lip but you intend to top out, anchor your rope all the way up in the trees above. Just pad the edge as needed (not a huge issue, as the rope is not moving significantly across anything). The goal is to always have rope above you.

Or just use a dynamic rope and never have to worry about creating such a load. If you're concerned about the sawing effect then you should already be padding the edges, in which case you don't really worry about the rope sawing. 

Nate Tastic wrote:
What do you (all) consider semi-static?

If I recall correctly, ropes are classified as either dynamic, static, or semi-static based on their static elongation. Static ropes may not exceed 5% static elongation while dynamic ropes may not exceed 10% static elongation. 

John RB wrote: Anecdotally, I've fallen 3-4 ft onto my microtraxion many times without any issue.  Rope stretch on a semi-static mitigated the impact somewhat of course, and the fall was pretty comfy (60ft of rope out helps).  The force, from my back-of-the-envelope, was less than 2kN.

These 3-4 ft falls happen when the rope isn't feeding and I am unable to let go to hand-feed.  Happens sometimes...

Whoa hold up. That doesn't happen sometimes for me, and if it did I'd figure out why my rope wasn't feeding and fix it rather than keep going up. YGD.

Are you tying a weight into your rope just above the ground to keep the rope taut?