BD / Joe Kinder / ???

Nate Tastic wrote: 

Locals Only probably surfs Carlsbad State Beach (I don't think he could handle the trestles.) 

I DONT ACTUALLY SURF I JUST SATIRIZE THE IDIOTIC ATTITUDE THAT PLAGUES SO MANY SOCAL SURFER/CLIMBER HYBRIDS BRAJ GET OFF MY WAVEROCK INCIDENTALLY THATS MY ROCK

Locals Only wrote:

I DONT ACTUALLY SURF I JUST SATIRIZE THE IDIOTIC ATTITUDE THAT PLAGUES SO MANY SOCAL SURFER/CLIMBER HYBRIDS BRAJ GET OFF MY WAVEROCK INCIDENTALLY THATS MY ROCK

I think your caps lock key is broken.

Marc801 C wrote:

I think your caps lock key is broken.

HAPPENS ALL THE TIME.

You deleted your post before I could hit reply.

It wasn't "a single joke".

It was a pattern of repeated attacks on the appearance of more than one younger female climber that went on for years despite private communication asking for it to stop.  That is why people are calling it out for the cyber-bullying that it is.

Señor Arroz wrote:

Maybe you can suggest this to the BD sponsorship department and to Mr. Kinder. Never to late to show remorse.

Will do it.

But be warned, because I will do it with La Sportiva too, he will have to do it twice: Italy and USA. I ask anyway the right to chose which cliffs in Italy he has to clean!
Best,
E

It's starting to smell like farts in here...would somebody please open a window?

Marc801 C wrote:

I think your caps lock key is broken.

There seems to be a clear divide.  On one hand you have folks that say "NOT OK!!! GLAD HE GOT CAUGHT!!!  HIS LIFE SHOULD BE OVER!!!", and the other camp that's like "Yeah, what he did was stupid, but he doesn't deserve to have his career flushed in one fell swoop because of what he did."

One thing is for sure, it shows how sensitive we are as a society- or maybe community is a better word.  And it shows there are real consequences for not conforming.  

This is some high school bull shit. why not just block the account????
its like when someone makes a big deal about cyber bullying in video games, just close the tab.

don'tchuffonme wrote: There seems to be a clear divide.  On one hand you have folks that say "NOT OK!!! GLAD HE GOT CAUGHT!!!  HIS LIFE SHOULD BE OVER!!!", and the other camp that's like "Yeah, what he did was stupid, but he doesn't deserve to have his career flushed in one fell swoop because of what he did."

Or as Khoi put it, "It was a pattern of repeated attacks on the appearance of more than one younger female climber that went on for years despite private communication asking for it to stop.  That is why people are calling it out for the cyber-bullying that it is."

don'tchuffonme wrote:One thing is for sure, it shows how sensitive we are as a society- or maybe community is a better word.  And it shows there are real consequences for not conforming.  

"conforming" meaning, treating women with respect? 

I mean, yeah: there should be consequences for not treating women with respect. Welcome to this brave new world. I think we're all here to have a good time.

don'tchuffonme wrote: There seems to be a clear divide.  On one hand you have folks that say "NOT OK!!! GLAD HE GOT CAUGHT!!!  HIS LIFE SHOULD BE OVER!!!", and the other camp that's like "Yeah, what he did was stupid, but he doesn't deserve to have his career flushed in one fell swoop because of what he did."

One thing is for sure, it shows how sensitive we are as a society- or maybe community is a better word.  And it shows there are real consequences for not conforming.  

How do you equate losing a sponsorship with his life being over? Most of us have been fired from a job at one point or another. Our lives weren't over. I'm sure Joe will learn from this and prosper.

Daniel Behrend wrote: This is some high school bull shit. why not just block the account????
its like when someone makes a big deal about cyber bullying in video games, just close the tab.

Blocking an account, or closing a tab does nothing to solve the problem, it just allows the instigator to find another victim. It sounds like SD attempted to resolve this quietly with Joe several times unsuccessfully so she took steps that in her mind seemed appropriate. 

Bullying, shaming, or treating others disrespectfully in general, is not just some high school bullshit. It is inappropriate for anyone, at any age.  

Khoi wrote: You deleted your post before I could hit reply.

It wasn't "a single joke".

It was a pattern of repeated attacks on the appearance of more than one younger female climber that went on for years despite private communication asking for it to stop.  That is why people are calling it out for the cyber-bullying that it is.

Okay, just let it go about the age and gender already.  It would not have been okay regardless of anyone’s age or gender in this, presuming they are all adults.  And yes, in our society right now, women are much easier targets for fat shaming than men, but tides turn and it’s not okay to do it to anyone.

It really is time for everyone to start being kinder to one another.  Pun intended.
Fwiw, just like in the rest of the world, most of the privileged, white males and all of the other humans I know from climbing are good people, not jerks.  Calling out the very public jerks (of any gender, age or ethnicity) to behave respectfully to others is a good thing.  Glad it has happened.

don'tchuffonme wrote: There seems to be a clear divide.  On one hand you have folks that say "NOT OK!!! GLAD HE GOT CAUGHT!!!  HIS LIFE SHOULD BE OVER!!!", and the other camp that's like "Yeah, what he did was stupid, but he doesn't deserve to have his career flushed in one fell swoop because of what he did."

One thing is for sure, it shows how sensitive we are as a society- or maybe community is a better word.  And it shows there are real consequences for not conforming.  

J. Kinder isn't a gear designer, product engineer, IT guy, logistics management expert, doesn't cast aluminum or sew clothes, or provide any quantifiable or objective value to these companies.  The _only_ (questionable) value he provides is that of Brand Ambassador.  He's not one of the strongest climbers, nor the most adventuresome, but has managed to carve out a niche as "fun guy with good attitude that climbs pretty dang hard".  The minute he chose to undermine his own self-styled reputation, he was putting his (already super tenuous) job on the line.  If you -choose- to be a sponsored/paid athlete, you are choosing to play by rules of conduct that are determined by market forces, the social zeitgeist, and fearful marketing departments.  I know several very strong climbers that could easily be sponsored who choose not to be, largely because they prefer not to subject themselves to the foibles of increasingly milquetoast international corporations.

...and keep in mind that a " brand ambassador" who is a grown adult, one who is approaching middle age, will get much less leeway than a 17 or even 20 year-old kid. The "I'm just a punk skater kid with a harsh sense of humor" justification does not cut it when you are 38. 

Señor Arroz wrote:

How do you equate losing a sponsorship with his life being over? Most of us have been fired from a job at one point or another. Our lives weren't over. 

Of course his life isn't over, but:

When was the last time any of you have been fired from a job AND your employer(s) publicly stated the reason you were fired (even if you weren't named) via a bunch of corp values, and pretty much made it clear anyone else hiring you shows a lack of such values. Even if another large company was willing to hire him (in a different climate), they now run real risk of getting sued under equal employment opportunity laws. The consequence is way worse than if you actually just decked a coworker from some petty argument, so is that fact the climbing industry is quite small.

I'm sure Joe will learn from this and prosper.

I sure hope so. I doubt it's going to be in the climbing industry unless he starts his own business. But then again, it wasn't like he (or climbing athletes of his age) can continue on the status quo for very long.

reboot wrote: Of course his life isn't over, but:

When was the last time any of you have been fired from a job AND your employer(s) publicly stated the reason you were fired (even if you weren't named) via a bunch of corp values, and pretty much made it clear anyone else hiring you shows a lack of such values. Even if another large company was willing to hire him (in a different climate), they now run real risk of getting sued under equal employment opportunity laws. The consequence is way worse than if you actually just decked a coworker from some petty argument, so is that fact the climbing industry is quite small.

I sure hope so. I doubt it's going to be in the climbing industry unless he starts his own business. But then again, it wasn't like he (or climbing athletes of his age) can continue on the status quo for very long.

Exactly right. His days were numbered as a "pro" climber anyway. I suspect the total dollar figures he was getting from BD aren't very impressive, anyway. We all move on in life. 

Nate Tastic wrote:Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is times have changed.

Sort of...

Everything is Karate.

Nate Tastic wrote:

Sure. 

And on the other hand...

I'm not sure kids these days were raised to be "punk skaters." 

Great point. I spent my middle school years literally looking over my shoulder every day and, during my 6th grade year would deliberately stand next to the cleanest garbage can so when the 8th graders threw me in one it wouldn't be the dirty garbage can.

I tell my kids those stories and they just can't even imagine. They ask what the school did about that and I say, "nothing." They really can't believe that.

Times have changed. And it's a good thing.