Great Falls, VA Dry Tooling?

https://youtu.be/OKfR_qM5IWo

Came across this video and was wondering what some other people who climb at Great Falls think of this.  I was under the impression that dry tooling was reserved for rock of lesser quality that no one bothers to climb, not popular climbs like Armbuster and Two Lane Highway.

I’m not sure what that was but it wasn’t drytooling. That Pink song playing rocks though!

Bump for some more opinions.

It's totally unacceptable BS behavior.

Edited to add- oops, just realized I don't climb at Great Falls.
Have climbed there in the past.
It's worth preserving.

Ouch... thats gonna leave a mark...

Great Falls might be primarily toproping, but it’s still quality rock in a spectacular setting - world class kayaking immediately upstream.  I suspect that there are better places to practice drytooling IMO.

Sorry for not getting back to your message earlier Brian.

Drytooling at areas where the ethic doesn't allow for dry tooling is faux pas. In my memory dry tooling at great falls is not the norm. Furthermore the guy in the video looks like a newb that needs to get as much practice as possible. He also needs to work on his TR solo rig as what he is doing in the video is really inefficient.

I remember a guy that was dry tooling at carderock one day and he got called out by the mayor over there, John G for damaging the rock. 

I literally grew up in Great Falls so you could say I'm a local, its a place where I acquired my bug for climbing. Its a top rope choss pile, there is not one classic lead in the entire gorge from VA to MD to DC. Tool it, have fun!

wes calkins wrote: Sorry for not getting back to your message earlier Brian.

Drytooling at areas where the ethic doesn't allow for dry tooling is faux pas. In my memory dry tooling at great falls is not the norm. Furthermore the guy in the video looks like a newb that needs to get as much practice as possible. He also needs to work on his TR solo rig as what he is doing in the video is really inefficient.

I remember a guy that was dry tooling at carderock one day and he got called out by the mayor over there, John G for damaging the rock. 

he didnt get a hammer in the head did he?

T Roper wrote:

he didnt get a hammer in the head did he?

Super weak dude, poor form. 

T Roper, you must feel like you're real important. Not cool making jokes about about Geoff.

Must be the only place that you have any validity is on MP cause Ive never heard of you before. 

T Roper wrote: I literally grew up in Great Falls so you could say I'm a local, its a place where I acquired my bug for climbing. Its a top rope choss pile, there is not one classic lead in the entire gorge from VA to MD to DC. Tool it, have fun!

Meh, I’ve only toproped there, but don’t remember anything being chossy.  All the rock I got on was solid, albeit arguably not the best (schist, gneiss?) for leading.

Armbuster is a fine climb, and this guy is a major ass for dry tooling on it.  This is definitely not acceptable on Great Falls schist.  

T Roper wrote: I literally grew up in Great Falls so you could say I'm a local, its a place where I acquired my bug for climbing. Its a top rope choss pile, there is not one classic lead in the entire gorge from VA to MD to DC. Tool it, have fun!

Great Fall is solid schist.  Can't place pro but the rock is solid.  PATC-MS takes exception at people dry tooling at both Great Falls and Caderock. Back in 2014 John Gregory reported some people dry tooling at Caderock and it created some drama.  Plus the NPS wouldn't appreciate it.  There is strong encouragement to go down stream to a place called Gibbon's Roost.

Though given the situation, I don't know what else one can do other than politely telling them to stop if they see it in person.

ubu wrote: Armbuster is a fine climb, and this guy is a major ass for dry tooling on it.  This is definitely not acceptable on Great Falls schist.  

Armbuster was my first project.  What a jackass.

wes calkins wrote: T Roper, you must feel like you're real important. Not cool making jokes about about Geoff.

Must be the only place that you have any validity is on MP cause Ive never heard of you before. 

I bouldered and climbed with Geoff if that matters at all. He was one of the rare folk whom I let give me a hip belay. DC is a kooky place, dont let it get to you.

Armbuster may not be a world classic, but it is an area classic, and it is a dick move to do that shit on a route like that. I hope he didn't damage the rock.

wes calkins wrote: Sorry for not getting back to your message earlier Brian.

Drytooling at areas where the ethic doesn't allow for dry tooling is faux pas. In my memory dry tooling at great falls is not the norm. Furthermore the guy in the video looks like a newb that needs to get as much practice as possible. He also needs to work on his TR solo rig as what he is doing in the video is really inefficient.

I remember a guy that was dry tooling at carderock one day and he got called out by the mayor over there, John G for damaging the rock. 

Lol at the mayor comment.  Yeah he passive aggressively complains about people there in the PATC-MS user board.  It was two Chinese nationalists that didn’t speak much English or knew better and he acted like that destroyed routes.  Another time some bored kid with a rock was scrapping it on wall and complained of vandalism.

Slightly off topic, what is it about great falls / carderock schist that makes it unleadable? I've climbed on a bunch of schist in the nyc / hundson river area and know it's not ideal, but we lead stuff.

Mark Wenzel wrote: Slightly off topic, what is it about great falls / carderock schist that makes it unleadable? I've climbed on a bunch of schist in the nyc / hundson river area and know it's not ideal, but we lead stuff.

The rock is hard but brittle at Great Falls.  A few years ago, I would go there on days when I couldn't get anyone to climb and I would practice gear anchors.  Sometimes the rock would pulverize from simply hand-setting stoppers and tricams.  I had done some leads there before that but stopped after seeing that.  

Plus, there was the Armbuster accident a few years.

I remember seeing a thread where John Gregory mentioned that he looked at the nut placement that failed in that accident.  He said it completely sheared out of the rock leaving a scar where the rock failed.  Not exactly confidence inspiring.

Jake Jones wrote:

The rock in most places there doesn't offer good enough friction for cams to be solid.  Even passive stuff seems to not stick well in constrictions there sometimes.  A few times a year, you'll see stories or reports like this one:  https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/114127515/great-falls-va-trad-accident

Still, people go, and people lead there.   The routes are relatively short and not super classic so it's not really worth mangling yourself.  You'll get a few outliers here and there that will proclaim they've been leading there for years, have fallen, never had anything rip, etc. etc.  Generally speaking, the consensus is that leading there is a gamble.

So, it's not really unleadable, but not a terribly good idea.

To follow up, the cracks there are either parallel and slick or the constrictions are going the wrong way for nuts.  You just don't have good choices for clean pro.  There were bolts on some climbs because a fellow used to teach aid climbing but they are long gone and NPS isn't open to sport climbing.