Stuff you don't NEED, learn from our mistakes

akafaultline wrote:

Couldn’t disagree more.   Fenix lights are amazing and absolutely necessary for late night winter (4 pm) climbing in Alaska.  Having 1000 lumens helps immensely on route finding, for running on dark trails or biking. Also used a fenix to supplement my snowmobiles lights in tight trails.    Been several times when I’ve been biking and a moose came across my path that I saw much earlier with a good headlamp that I wouldn’t have seen with a cheap one. 

 I used to climb in the dark with a cheap headlamp. I bought a fancy Petzl lamp and I never wanna go back. The brighter lights make climbing ice much easier.

akafaultline wrote:

I actually primarily use headlamps for winter climbing.  For route finding on the Tetons or rainier and Orizaba at the “maze” an expensive headlamp that reaches further out has been invaluable and wouldn’t go with a cheap one at all. When ice climbing and using a headlamp, the beam is very focused when it is that close to what your trying to see so you may not see all the details you want when kicking your pons.  In addition ice bulges often cause the headlamp to be obstructed from what your trying to kick so having a bright headlamp on the belayer is an awesome bonus. Another example I was recently on a climbing trip on a frozen lake with icebergs in it.  Hundreds of icebergs as tall as 70-80 feet tall-after a while all the icebergs started looking the same and with weak headlamps you couldn’t decipher as well the way out-my headlamp reached a solid 400 feet in a maze of bergs that were otherwise very confusing    

I suspect noobs need expensive headlamps when they're summiting K2 as well?  Also, they probably need expensive headlamps when they're transecting the Congo jungle.  Should I recommend a $200 headlamp when a noob wants to paddle niagra falls at night?  I bet it would also come in handy when a noob wants to send the nose in a day.  

I also recommend getting a helicopter to commute to work every day.  It's invaluable when there's a lot of traffic.  

Cordalette, PAS and more than a 2-3 locking biners.

Bill Kirby wrote:

 I used to climb in the dark with a cheap headlamp. I bought a fancy Petzl lamp and I never wanna go back. The brighter lights make climbing ice much easier.

Yeah having a nice bright headlamp is awesome for all climbing. I use one all the time in the summer for climbing rock at night when the temperature gets better. We also use them for bouldering at night can strap one to a tree or prop up on a boulder. Plus compact lighting tech has come so far you can get a really bright light for pretty cheap.

When you have a house and a full time job and still want to climb a lot climbing in the dark is a great way to get after it.

Ryan McDermott wrote:

Two-way radios saved our asses on a 68m traverse pitch in El Potrero Chico in 20mph winds. We also frequently use them climbing as a family when one group heads to a distant part of the crag. Last week two of my girls preferred to hang out in the van at the Chocolate Factory parking lot while my son worked on his project; we could communicate all afternoon. 

Dope Ninja?

If so, my friend and I enjoyed that traverse (pitch 5?) in some pretty strong winds as well, without radios, and tons of rope drag so rope commands were inneffective. We made it but bailed for margaritas immediately thereafter.

Re. headlamps: the premise of this thread was GEAR we don't need. Ie. I'll never really need a #7 Tricam unless I'm in a bar fight. But hair-splitting debates about whether an expensive headlamp or cheap headlamp is necessary seems beside the point. I think we all agree a HEADLAMP is a useful and important piece of gear. 

Yeah, I wasn't argueing against a headlamp.  My point was simply that I've owned $60-80 headlamps and I've owned $10-20 headlamps.  I haven't noticed any difference between them in terms of brighness or quality and given the fact that I've lost many of them, I don't see the need to buy the more expensive ones.  The petzl tikina is like $20 and accomplishes everything I need it to, and likely what noobs will need it for the majority of the time.  If other folks want to recommend $100+ headlamps to noobs, be my guest, but it kind of seems like recommending Sportiva solutions to a 5.8 climber.  It has simply been my personal experience that a $10-20 headlamp has been completely sufficient 99% of the time. I suspect they don't burn through batteries as quickly either.  

I think you may have owned expensive headlamps, but you've never owned a good headlamp. They're difference is, uhh, like night and day.

It seems as though a lot of people have very strong emotional relationships with headlamps.  Next time, I'll bring up abortion, gun control, or immigration to keep the topic lighter.

There definitely is a difference between value proposition and general usefulness (especially if there is a non-monetary trade-off). Are ultralight (vs regular) camalots "needed" by a dirtbag? Probably not. But what about to a billionaire? Why not. Same with all other class of "nice" things. I have a $60 headlamp that can light up an entire boulder, but I don't bring it everywhere b/c it's bigger & heavier than a cheaper headlamp (though not by much). I don't bring a helmet most of the time not b/c I don't have one. Etc, etc. 

NRobl wrote:

It seems as though a lot of people have very strong emotional relationships with headlamps.  Next time, I'll bring up abortion, gun control, or immigration to keep the topic lighter.

Maybe go with the more simple explanation: you don't know as much about headlamps as you think you do?

In my experience, head lamp brightness and usefulness is more a function of battery life than headlamp model. With any headlamp, it works great when the batteries are fresh but then starts to putter out as the batteries are nearing the end of their lifespan. 

Man, all of this hate for personal anchors! I've had two on my harness for over 21 years (not the same one). I like one medium key lock biner and non-locker. When you clean an anchor, it's always there. Sure, you can bring up some draws with you, but I like the dedicated one. I still use the dangerous daisy, as I girth hitch the end to my biner. If you are buying new tethers, however, just get a a pair of long nylon slings as they are the cheapest option. You can use extra quickdraws if you need more extension. 

Definitely don't like tricams or hexes anymore, so agree there

Auto-locking biners suck, hands down. 

I love my cordalettes, too, sorry. Not giving those up. I do not like the Quad for sport climbing. What a clusterfuck that thing is! Just use two long dogbone quickdraws with beefy biners to put the rope through. You can add one locker if you like. 

Two way radios blow, so nope. Mine sit in some box somewhere. Hated them.

I used my Tiblocs once to fix a stuck rope in a thunder storm, so they are cool in my book. Don't buy them, though. :-)

NRobl wrote:

It seems as though a lot of people have very strong emotional relationships with headlamps.  Next time, I'll bring up abortion, gun control, or immigration to keep the topic lighter.

Agreed.  I think there is no reason for a new trad leader to spend money on a good climbing gun for their first outings.  Additionally, buying a foreign sex slave, while appealing to some, is generally considered bad ethics and a poor allocation of your climbing funds.  Also, whenever I see a climber performing a back-alley abortion halfway up a route, I know they're a noob and are definitely going to die.  

One person's essential gear is another person's fluff.

I would say, do not buy things before you KNOW you need it. Your first time climbing outside you will probably go with someone more experienced. Ask them what you need to bring for THIS trip. And don't buy anything more. It will only take a couple of trips for you to figure out all the essentials. And then you will find out what you like/don't like, and pick up additional essential-for-you items. I see so many people posting/asking questions like, "I'm just getting started, so I already got my harness and shoes, 4 locking 'biners, an ATC, some slings, a pack of quickdraws, a length of webbing, and two daisy chains, what else should I get?".

And it's like, umm, what do you plan on climbing? If you are going sport climbing, you have wasted your money on those daisy chains, extra lockers, and a length of webbing, even the slings you probably don't need.

If you are planning on setting up topropes anchoring to trees, then maybe you need more webbing, and those lockers would come in handy, but you still don't need the daisy chains, and a pack of quickdraws won't come in handy until you start leading.

I admit that couple daisy chains were on the list of gear we bought for sport climbing... because the gumby who took us on the first-ever sport climbing trip considered them essential for anchoring yourself while cleaning the anchors. And even a great choice for building toprope anchors.   
Fortunately, I learned better quickly, and since aid climbing has never been on my must-do list, that daisy chain came in handy for keeping my then 7yo son's keys attached to his backpack.

No matter how carefully you plan, you will still get things that you will later discover you don't like, or don't need. Your first choice of harness probably isn't going to be the choice you make again 5 years down the road when you replace it, you might have a much better sense of what you like in a crag pack after you carry the first backpack you bought for a few years, and discover all the things you don't like about it, same with a rope bag, quickdraws, and everything else, from thermoses and water bottles to helmets. Part of the learning process. 

Oh, and don't buy these stupid things. Please. Get the regular ATC so you can rappel.

Cordallets are good for cutting up and using for bail slings. 

Kevin Mokracek wrote:

Cordallets are good for cutting up and using for bail slings. 

not the dyneema ones. Accessory cord is great for this though

Tim Stich wrote:

Oh, and don't buy these stupid things. Please. Get the regular ATC so you can rappel.

But they're so good for indoor sport climbing, when you want to go light and fast! I have a buddy who bought one. He doesn't even try to defend it, he just chalks it up to a rampant case of GAS (Gear Acquisition Syndrome).

I'll add: 

Black diamond stoppers 1-3. The standard set 4-13 are good and useful but once you get smaller you might as well go with brass or other specialized nuts as there are many that are rated stronger. 

This horrible carabiner or one like it:  https://www.rei.com/product/692379/omega-pacific-doval-wiregate-carabiner  Partner had this on the first trad climb I followed and that was when I realized that I had strong opinions about carabiners. This thing you can't tell where the gate opens by shape and it is incredibly aggravating. They also seemed really prone to flipping. I've not climbed with folks who regularly use ovals but I imagine you could run into the same issue there. 

On a related note, cheap heavy quickdraws. Those omega pacific rackpack draws are horribly heavy and the gate is really snag prone. I suppose they aren't that heavy when just on a sport route but when you try to build them into a trad rack they add a lot of unnecessary weight. I do kind of like the Mad Rock Ultralight Wire Quickdraws though.

Link cams seem like a good idea, but they are really specialized pieces. I have several and hardly ever use them anymore (just thankful I got them for dirt cheap). They are generally too heavy and it's unlikely in practice you'll actually carry one less cam because of it's greater ranger. 

I'll probably catch some flak over this one but: nylon slings. Just go with dyeema and replace every couple years or, use a blend fabric like: https://www.rei.com/product/474003/bluewater-titanspectra-runner-916  These are thinner and rack better than nylon and are easier to deal with in trad draws. I find it easier to make one handed slip knots with thinner slings as well. 

Crash pads with non-angled hinges or low quality foam are also something I'd avoid. Good ones tend to handle irregular terrain/messy landing zones better (but spotting is obviously important). Spend a little more and get something you trust.