Dyneema Sling as Master point vs Cordlette

Ok so I have been getting ready to start putting together my first trad rack and I just want to know if it’s okay to build a equalized masterpoint with a triple length dyneema sling. I understand knots in dyneema are bad, but I’m so confused. Isn’t that mettolious equalizer thing made of dyneema? Cordlette is like a guaranteed thing but can I use the sling instead or should I just stick to cord? Lmk and just remember..... I put my hand up on my hip when I dip you dip we dip....heard it on the radio lol

Oh, boy, get ready for several pages of lectures... There's been a lot of discussion on MP about dyneema slings vs. nylon, and cordelettes vs. tying in with the rope.

Are you looking to set single-pitch top-rope anchors, or multipitch belay anchors? If you're only doing single pitch, and there are no bolted anchors, just use a cordelette for your slingshot belay. If you're looking to get into multipitch, get ready for a lot of advice on why tying in with the rope is simpler, and generally better. Your best bet is to go climbing with someone who has more experience than you, and learn from them.

Yes, Dyneema is fine to use for anchor material. Use a figure 8 or 9 as your masterpoint to facilitate easier untying.

A cordalette will stand up to edges better, in case you are wrapping horns or boulders for your anchor.

You are likely going to be better off with a long nylon sling, or a cordalette of a material that is dynamic, rather than dyneema.  

It's fine to use dyneema to build an anchor. Tie-in to the anchor with the rope. Learn how to use cordelette and the rope itself to give you more options to make an appropriate decision.

Yeah that's completely fine. Ditching your two 7 or 8mm cordelettes for the 180 or 240 cm dyneema slings is a big improvement in terms of weight. But you really don't need the long slings either, since most times you can make an anchor with a double length sling or a single and a double. Furthermore all the self-rescue MMO/load transfer type stuff that is generally taught with an extra cordalette can be achieved with the climbing rope or even with a double length sling. The only time I bring a dyneema cordelette is if I need to belay from a tree at some point on the route. 

Someone should write an essay along the lines of multipitch belay anchor's: safety considerations regarding high fall factors. 

I primarily use a 240cm dyneema sling for anchors when ice climbing and alpine climbing, but I always make sure that we have at least one cordalette between my partner and I.  I've had to build funky anchors after long pitches, so I can't always follow the sage advice of MP to "USE THE ROPE!" I also like having cord to leave behind for rappels if necessary, which I have had to do several times.

Its a bit more expensive than accessory cord, but lighter. Plus, you cant chop it up to use as bail gear or to replace tat on established rappel routes, because of that knot issue. I always carry an extra long loop or 2 of accessory cord on long climbs for rapping, or for who knows what eventuality. Plus, if you need to bang out some friction knots for ascending or backing up your rappel (which should be done EVERY rappel) accessory cord works a bit better. You can tie some friction knots with dyneema, but they are little more finicky than ones tied with cord, and a pussic wont work in dyneema

Ryan Swanson wrote:

Hrumpf™....

Just be sure to tie in to your master point with the rope, not some noob PAS ass floss.

:P

King Tut wrote:

Hrumpf™....

Just be sure to tie in to your master point with the rope, not some noob PAS. 

:P

Have you now trademarked a new spelling of "Harumpf"? And what if, instead of a noob PAS, someone uses a crusty, old PAS? :P

Kyle Tarry wrote:

I'm confused, as of 1 week ago this wasn't an acceptable technique, according to you:

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/112835265/clove-hitch-climbing-anchor?page=10

Kyle don't poke the bear...

You'll be fine. Literally just ignore everything being said in this thread by everyone else (and especially me)

There's two kinds of questions when you first start climbing:

1. Questions about technique and how to do things.

2. Questions about what kind of gear to use.

Questions #1 are great and learn everything these is to learn under the "basic' category then STOP and go out and have some fun. Nothing big, nothing too much, just go out and get some experience. That's it.

Questions #2 are literally irrelevant to you until you get more experience so don't even ask them or read about them or even think about them. As long as you're buying/using things that are made for climbing and for the application you're using them in, you'll be fine. There's probably things that are better than what you're using but most new climbers are not experienced enough to appreciate that anyways. The important thing to remember is that for general new climbing concerns, whatever you buy is going to be safe enough, expensive/cheap enough, and efficient enough to get you through the day. You'll have plenty of time to become a theory/gear whore later.

Trust that in the beginning we all basically do the same stuff and make the same mistakes and yes there are situations you can find yourself in every 1000th time out that can get you killed but guess what, when you're new, you probably won't be able to mitigate those situations until you've got more experience. None of us eliminate danger/risk we all just mitigate it. You can't mitigate risk until you have the experience to understand why what you do is doing the thing you hope it'll do and no amount of online beta circle-jerking is going to do that for you. And whatever you do, be careful of catching the "I know a lot of theory so I'm going to overapply everything and basically become a laughing stock of incorrect advice given to people that don't know any better." disease because it sure is catching. As they say, "Lie with forum dogs and wake with climbing theory fleas."

Now ignore what I just typed.

Kyle Tarry wrote:

"I'm confused, as of 1 week ago this wasn't an acceptable technique, according to you:"

I believe the meaning is that it is optimal to incorporate a dynamic element into anchoring yourself. 

Even small falls on anything static can be rough on the body.

Just don't load it over an edge.

How long before someone posts the DMM knot video???

Yes you can and many people do but you should take the time to learn when it might not be.   Nylon is a little better as it is dynamic but there are not a rash of deaths from masterpointed dyneema slings.  Using the rope is best if you are swinging leads.  

Spend some time researching the limitations of dyneema slings (aka don't factor fall on one without a dynamic component) so you understand what you are doing and can make an informed risk management decision.   A lot of the controversy you are about to see stems from the fact that there is not a good dogmatic answer to your question as there are exceptions and caveats, as well as risks inherent with the material.  Just saying yes or no doesn't exactly cut it.  If you want to just not think about it use accessory cord or webbing/slings.   I use the rope or dyneema slings 90% of the time. For rock I use eldlrid slings that are nylon covered dyneema for abrasion resistance and untying ease.  Cordalette is nice for v-thread ice anchors.

Tldr: climbing is a trade-off of risks/weight/ect.  Dyneema has downsides but saves weight.  Learn the material so you can decide if the benefits outweigh disadvantages and how to mitigates those.

jg fox wrote:

Kyle don't poke the bear...

ikr, when is Kyle gonna learn?

:P

Kyle Tarry wrote:

Whew, thanks!  I had no idea.

Sarcasm noted.

Some who read these threads might actually have no idea, so best to be prudent. 

BUT DID YOU WATCH THE DMM VIDEO?!?!?