Please give me feedback on my climbing anchors

Brandon.Phillips wrote:

Your anchors look good for the most part.  The one critique I would give would be on the "personal anchor, belay off shelf" anchors. You should clip into the shelf and belay off the master point. If this is at the top of a multipitch, or you are tied into the other end of the rope, you can extend yourself with a clove hitch to get into a more comfortable stance. I don't think there is a good argument to belay off the shelf. Belaying off the master point will keep everything in line and not add a dynamic element if your second should fall.

Not to hijack the thread, but Im totally going to have to try this.  My last Multi outing the belay stations were not so smooth. I think using this will help out a bunch, and being able to to get below the master point should save the back in terms of being bent over and uncomfortable.

Can’t believe nobody has pointed this out: your primary placements are garbage.  That chair is good for maybe 0.5N at the MAX. :p

In all seriousness, though, nobody here can give you an accurate, honest assessment of the quality of your anchor until it’s placed in stone.  Having 2 or 3 solid, bomber placements is much more important than how you rig them together.

King Tut wrote:

Ditch guide mode. It is quite complicated to lower the second in an emergency and nothing beginners should be messing with.

Huh? How often do you need to lower the second? Not much. And it's not complicated, just not ideal. Back up your second with guide mode is a good idea.

Tradiban wrote:

Huh? How often do you need to lower the second? Not much. And it's not complicated, just not ideal. Back up your second with guide mode is a good idea.

Anytime you have to rig something as complicated as properly lowering someone in Guide Mode I don't recommend it for any new climbers. They need to learn solid and uncomplicated standard technique, first, imo. 

If you want to do what you want then do what you want, meh. But a first time leader (like this sub-forum is devoted to) should not be using Guide Mode because, as you say, it is not remotely ideal.

Yeah, or you could use one of these:

https://dmmclimbing.com/dmm-pivot-belay-device/

Or educate yourself and practice like you are doing right now with your anchors.

San Juan Mountain Guides on top rope lowering.

AMGA makes pretty knowledgeable videos too; who would of thought?

Got that newbies?

Ditch your current belay device and/or practice on your friends at home after watching a video....?

And there you have it...

ps. Actually, I would recommend that you play with prussiks while safely belayed by a second rope sometime before practicing with your friends life the first time.

^^^^and how likely is safely practicing going to happen?

King Tut wrote:

Got that newbies?

Ditch your current belay device and/or practice on your friends at home after watching a video....

And there you have it...

Your sarcasm is noted.

your couch looks super solid for anchoring.  

stay inside so we don't have to teach you anchor building outside when we are trying climb....

jg fox wrote:

Your sarcasm is noted.

TBH (and in the interest of full disclosure) "Guide Mode" as a thing comes after I have rejoined the climbing world. At first it looked intriguing and then I saw the vids of how to do it right after hearing of the accidents...and was appalled.

I knew right then it was nothing I wanted anything to do with nor would I ever recommend it to newbies. They need to understand what kind of forces a falling second can generate before they start playing with guide mode lowering the first time they really need to do it (the most likely scenario). Having nearly been dropped to my death twice in 40 years of climbing I am a little gun shy when people get cavalier about belaying or understanding what it really is all about.

Guide Mode completely masks what belaying is about ie a Brake Hand being in control. Even lowering a second with a Gri-Gri is not to be trifled with, but you don't need a prussik safety to do it as a standard method.

King Tut wrote:

TBH (and in the interest of full disclosure) "Guide Mode" as a thing comes after I have rejoined the climbing world. At first it looked intriguing and then I saw the vids of how to do it right after hearing of the accidents...and was appalled.

I knew right then it was nothing I wanted anything to do with nor would I ever recommend it to newbies. They need to understand what kind of forces a falling second can generate before they start playing with guide mode lowering the first time they really need to do it (the most likely scenario). Having nearly been dropped to my death twice in 40 years of climbing I am a little gun shy when people get cavalier about belaying.

Fair enough.

Practice makes perfect and the more he practices (both inside and out), the better. 

Guide mode is certainly a more elegant solution but I do agree it needs practice.  Way better than seeing newbies belay off their harness and redirect off their harness like they are top roping.

jon bernhard wrote:

your couch looks super solid for anchoring.  

stay inside so we don't have to teach you anchor building outside when we are trying climb....

It is so nice to have hardmen such as yourself come into the beginner's forums and offer encouraging words.

jg fox wrote:

Fair enough.

Practice makes perfect and the more he practices (both inside and out), the better. 

Guide mode is certainly a more elegant solution but I do agree it needs practice.  Way better than seeing newbies belay off their harness and redirect off their harness like they are top roping.

What they need is an education on how to belay. Catching a second is nothing compared to catching a leader. Absolutely nothing wrong with belaying off your harness if their stance has been properly adjusted and they are leaning off the anchor. I rarely belay directly off the anchor, more usually the loop of rope formed by my tie in so the anchor takes it through that.

ps. To be sure, not wanting anything to do with Guide Mode is not any trepidation I have myself with setting it up, but in the time spent getting it properly rigged while on a route. This is why, with experienced judgment, it can be a time and effort saver IF you have enough experience in the party to know the pitch will not require a long lower (ie second is totally competent for the grade, no "trick knees" in the party etc etc....). 

But Guide Mode seems more to me to be something that might really bite you in the ass right when you don't want it to (traversing pitch right before the summit at dark and the second falls etc etc).

King Tut wrote:

What they need is an education on how to belay. Catching a second is nothing compared to catching a leader. Absolutely nothing wrong with belaying off your harness if their stance has been properly adjusted and they are leaning off the anchor. I rarely belay off the anchor, more usually the loop of rope formed by my tie in so the anchor takes it through that.

I'm basing bias off of personal experience of climbing with beginner leaders who are slow taking in slack due to an inefficient setup.  I suppose the technique isn't the issue, it is the user's lack of mastery of it.  I'm not talking a single pitch training climb, I'm talking going up multipitch with people I got tricked into climbing with at Yosemite.

Ted Pinson wrote:

Can’t believe nobody has pointed this out: your primary placements are garbage.  That chair is good for maybe 0.5N at the MAX. :p

In all seriousness, though, nobody here can give you an accurate, honest assessment of the quality of your anchor until it’s placed in stone.  Having 2 or 3 solid, bomber placements is much more important than how you rig them together.

eli poss wrote:

Looks pretty  good except for the last photo. When using the quad for TR you want one biner on 2 strands and the other biner on the other 2 strands. When it's set up like that, you can cut up to 3 strands and it won't fall apart.

You may want to ditch that basket and using something a little bit more bomber for your anchor, though ;)

jg fox wrote:

I'm basing bias off of personal experience of climbing with beginner leaders who are slow taking in slack due to an inefficient setup.  I suppose the technique isn't the issue, it is the user's lack of mastery of it.  I'm not talking a single pitch training climb, I'm talking going up multipitch with people I got tricked into climbing with at Yosemite.

ikr? And if that guy had to lower you 50' to get to the ground from locked off in Guide Mode...where would you be?

King Tut wrote:

Got that newbies?

Ditch your current belay device and/or practice on your friends at home after watching a video....?

And there you have it...

ps. Actually, I would recommend that you play with prussiks while safely belayed by a second rope sometime before practicing with your friends life the first time.

^^^^and how likely is safely practicing going to happen?

Once gain, don't hate on the device or technique just because some people make dumb decisions about using it. Hate on the dumb people instead. Or better yet, don't waste your time hating on dumb people and instead educate them on how to be less dumb.

King Tut wrote:

ikr? And if that guy had to lower you 50' to get to the ground from locked off in Guide Mode...where would you be?

Safely on the ground, if he used a Pivot. ;)

Seriously, those things invalidate 90% of the concerns people have with Guide Mode devices.

Love a good guide mode chat.... 

Really though - Practice on the ground. Find someone to give you actual feedback, in person. 

https://youtu.be/3SkCojauHto

I don't understand this obsession with being able to lower the 2nd easily from the belay. It's probably not the best option on a multipitch anyway, which is where you would likely be belaying top-down. Better to focus on climbs that your partner won't get stuck on or get a lesson on hauling them up the hard part.