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Thoughts on Feathered Friends NEW Belay Parka...The Khumbu
jdejace wrote: I too can vouch for ordering from Montbell Japan. Great deals. Low or free shipping. The UL Thermawrap Pant is a better clone of the Patagonia Nano Air Light Pant for a much better price: $87 usd https://en.montbell.jp/products/goods/disp.php?product_id=1101543 Here’s one of Montbell’s warmest down jackets: https://en.montbell.jp/products/goods/disp.php?product_id=1101312 $243 |
Brian Abram wrote: Wrong link at the end Also I've been dreaming of the Ventisca down pants....wow. And if you look in their outlet they have some either crazier down bibs called Zero Point. Only a Japanese small though which is tiny. |
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Sorry. Fixed, and yeah it’s the Ventisca jacket https://en.montbell.jp/products/goods/disp.php?product_id=1101312 |
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I really wish FF ( a great company) would make items that are designed for faster and lighter alpinism. Most of the jackets I have seen are built to handle the apocalypse but I often don't need or want that. Great for Antarctica, Himalaya, Denali perhaps (and they shouldn't STOP making them). I would like a more direct Pata Grade VII parka competitor (24oz vs 32 in the new khumbu). I have the Neutrino endurance now, and its great, but lacking a bit of the details I want (internal dump pockets for instance). |
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I think a Volant with integrated hood would be FF's best jacket if they made it. Little bit lighter. The Helios is quite light, but not much coverage or pockets and the fabric isn't as burly. Also sewn-through instead of box-baffled. I like FF's fabric choice. The Pertex Shield on the Volant and expedition jackets is a little heavier (1.9oz, 30d) than is typical but most down jackets are way too fragile IMO. I do think FF does hand pockets right with the clamshells. Simple, warm and nothing goes in my belay jacket pockets personally except my hands so I don't need the zips. It's hard to have it all in terms of 1) features (more pockets/zips = more weight) 2) coverage (full face coverage when zipped and hip/butt coverage = happiness/warmth but more weight) 3) down fill/warmth 4) fabric that won't spill your feathers everywhere when it brushes against your tool 5) light weight. Really IMO once you add features to make a down parka more reliable (burly, waterproof fabric) it's getting closer to the size/weight of a synthetic...except still substantially less bombproof. And the more waterproof the fabric, the less it breathes, the more your internal moisture condenses in your insulation. Down is warmer and definitely has its place, but I don't have any down jackets anymore. Sleeping bags, yes - less likely to get wet/torn and a synthetic sleeping bag is HUGE. Jackets are smaller items, not as big of a difference. I sometimes think about getting another big down parka for ice cragging on cold days - can always walk back to the car in those situations. But anyway for traditional mountaineering in dryer climate and with fewer sharp toys down makes more sense. And certainly lots of people use down jackets for hard technical climbing with good success. |
Gabe B. wrote: Your literally describing the Montbell Permafrost to a T. The US version that - japanese version has significantly less down Also unknown to many is the Eddie Bauer Downlight Alpine jacket. Its got a lot more down than their regular jacket and is supposed to fit like an outer layer. Probably a bit heavy and burly like most of their stuff though. But if you get it on a good sale.....its crazy cheap Also LL bean has something very interesting called the Wind Challenger down jacket. I believe it has 8oz of down but youd have to double check with them. The outside is a non breathable polyster knit / polyurethane fabric meaning it theoretically should be waterproof (and supposedly also very quiet). Its very light. Its not at all breathable but Im not sure that really matters much in a down jacket - does Goretex really make a difference? |
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What makes the thermawrap pants better than the nano air pants? |
Dante Carriero wrote: Breathability matters. Unless you're in total shit conditions most of the moisture getting into your insulation will be vapor from the inside condensing. Down needs to be able to dry, because not getting it wet is hopeless. Take it from Ueli Steck @ 0:45 (RIP): https://youtu.be/FQ9ET_j98Rw?t=44s Goretex isn't all that breathable, but better than a plastic bag. I tend to keep Goretex for 3-season stuff where I might actually encounter liquid precipitation. |
jdejace wrote: Water vapor will still condense inside your jacket as that's where the freeze point will be,goretex or not. You need to either wear a VBL or wear another layer over your insulation to change the point at which the water will freeze. This is especially true for sleeping bags and why so many people use a synthetic over quilt (or VBL if you want to go light) |
