New Crag Opening!! St. Louis

A new crag at Robinson Bluff is opening spring 2018. It is about an hour or so south of St. Louis. More info: http://www.robinsonbluff.com/

Seriously? Wtf is this. I'm all for climbing access but they're promoting this place like an amusement park. 

Looks like it may be a for-profit enterprise. Which is OK by me. It's apparently on private land.

Think HCR but an hour from St. Louis, as least that's how someone working on the project described it to me.  He also said the goal is 300+ routes when its all done, including some multi-pitch routes.

Max Rausch wrote:

Seriously? Wtf is this. I'm all for climbing access but they're promoting this place like an amusement park. 

Like hell they are. The owner made a video to get the community excited. He is kindly opening his property to the public for a small charge. I've developed several of the crags in the STL area and can personally attest to the quality of the routes that Robinson Bluff has. Your negativity is unnecessary and out of line. You should work on being more positive and less on dumping on the communities parade.....

I very much hope that all "350+" bolt hangers are not oriented as they are in their "brag" picture.

Dave Hug wrote:

Like hell they are. The owner made a video to get the community excited. He is kindly opening his property to the public for a small charge. I've developed several of the crags in the STL area and can personally attest to the quality of the routes that Robinson Bluff has. Your negativity is unnecessary and out of line. You should work on being more positive and less on dumping on the communities parade.....

Look, I understand you're excited about a new crag in your hometown. Maybe this is normal for where you're from. But on the west coast, there is a strong belief in Leave No Trace Ethics. Creating a website that sells a natural crag like it's climbing gym, goes against this. I'm sure the climbing will be fun though. <--- See... positivity  

Looks more like Reimers in length than Shelf or Clear Creek, but I guess St Louis jobs are no longer a hard no.

@Max Rausch 

Showing such respect to a landowner, that always helps preserve access...

How much is the fee? Couldn't see it on the website at first glance.

Dave Hug wrote:

Like hell they are. The owner made a video to get the community excited. He is kindly opening his property to the public for a small charge. I've developed several of the crags in the STL area and can personally attest to the quality of the routes that Robinson Bluff has. Your negativity is unnecessary and out of line. You should work on being more positive and less on dumping on the communities parade.....

Dave, thanks for your contributions to the Midwest!

Would you mind sharing a little more about the story behind Robinson Bluff? Is the owner a climber? If not, how did climbers approach the owner to create a pay-to-play crag? 

While some purists may find the idea of "monetizing" a crag against the spirit of climbing. In the Midwest where we barely have any public lands, private ownership may be the only route to securing access.

1000' of bolted routes, 355 bolts used so far... I hope that's not vertical feet or it's going to be less than 3' between bolts :-/

I'm so glad I don't live in the Midwest anymore. This is why public land is so important. 

Kris S wrote:

1000' of bolted routes, 355 bolts used so far... I hope that's not vertical feet or it's going to be less than 3' between bolts :-/

355 includes anchors maybe?

Dave Hug,

How many routes are up so far? Does the 1000' refer to the sum total of all pitch lengths, or is that the length of cliff line that's been developed so far?

Personally, I'm not against paying a fee to climb on private land. Someone has to put in a lot of effort to develop and maintain the crag, and I'm perfectly happy to pitch in to support it. If they turn a profit, great. (I pay to climb at Roadside and Muir Valley in RRG, and I'll happily pay when I'm at HCR this spring.) If the fee is too high for the value I get out of it, I'll climb somewhere else. Standard rules of economics apply.

Max Rausch wrote:

Look, I understand you're excited about a new crag in your hometown. Maybe this is normal for where you're from. But on the west coast, there is a strong belief in Leave No Trace Ethics. Creating a website that sells a natural crag like it's climbing gym, goes against this. I'm sure the climbing will be fun though. <--- See... positivity  

Ever been to Crawdad Canyon in Utah....I think there is strong Leave No Trace ethics everywhere outdoors!!!

300 new routes is almost a 50% increase for the state. I'm not seeing the fee posted anywhere but I am curious if it will be a car/parking fee or an individual fee. I can't really see a per person fee working out well.

I also wonder what this looks like as far as insurance goes. 

Though obviously, like most, I very much prefer to climb without having to pay for the privilege, realistically that is not often the case. In addition to the various 'private' areas already mentioned, most of us pay entrance fees when we visit most National Parks and Monuments as well as many State Parks, as well as the recreational use/parking fees applicable in most National Forests. Sure such fees aren't climbing specific, but we still have to pay them to gain access to climb. This new area is just another example. As stated above, If the cost is reasonable and the climbing worthwhile, folks will be willing to fork out--especially in 'rock deprived and access-challenged' areas such as the Mid-west. 

Here in New England I know of a very worthy crag on private property that had seen considerable route development until ownership changed hands in the late '80s and the  very irascible new owner (he has sued all his neighbors)--who lives near the base--closed it down.  A few years ago a local climber met with the owner and, after much discussion, seemed to have convinced him to let people climb there if they signed a waiver and paid $10 a visit. Most local climbers were very positive about this development. However when said climber next spoke with the owner shortly afterwards, he'd decided to charge $100 a visit--needless to say there have been no takers.(Though some folks seem to be willing to pay the steep costs required to currently climb at Skytop in the Gunks).

I believe Upper Limits said that members will either climb for free or have a discounted fee. 

Don't worry so much about specifics. Last time I was there I saw 40 routes. So quick math.... 355 bolts across 40 routes mean 8+ bolts per route. Most of the routes I saw were at least 60 feet in length, 6 feet between bolts, fairly standard. From what I could determine, the bluff looked to be roughly 1000 feet wide ranging in heights, most of it between 40 and 80 feet in height. Look bottom line is we shouldn't get caught up in specifics of what the website is mentioning. The area's best developers are working hard to develop routes at this site, this isn't some slack job. 

Focus on this are for what it is... a new climbing area. This place is huge (for Missouri) not only in size but for what it is. The citizens of eastern Missouri should be happy to know that a Jackson Falls/Horseshoe Canyon esque crag will now be within an hours drive of St. Louis.   

The owner has recently purchased the area, and they are climbers. The area was purchased for climbing and at the desire of the owners, they are going to graciously opened it to the public. For that, they are going to be asking for some sort of payment in return, but I don't know what they are thinking, all I know is they will model it off of Horseshoe and Muir. 

If you want to know what the climbing is like, go climb at St. Francois State Park or Washington State Park. While you are there, Imagine if another bluff were stacked on top of it, that is Robinson. 

Dave Hug wrote:

Don't worry so much about specifics. Last time I was there I saw 40 routes. So quick math.... 355 bolts across 40 routes mean 8+ bolts per route. Most of the routes I saw were at least 60 feet in length, 6 feet between bolts, fairly standard. From what I could determine, the bluff looked to be roughly 1000 feet wide ranging in heights, most of it between 40 and 80 feet in height. Look bottom line is we shouldn't get caught up in specifics of what the website is mentioning. The area's best developers are working hard to develop routes at this site, this isn't some slack job. 

Focus on this are for what it is... a new climbing area. This place is huge (for Missouri) not only in size but for what it is. The citizens of eastern Missouri should be happy to know that a Jackson Falls/Horseshoe Canyon esque crag will now be within an hours drive of St. Louis.   

The owner has recently purchased the area, and they are climbers. The area was purchased for climbing and at the desire of the owners, they are going to graciously opened it to the public. For that, they are going to be asking for some sort of payment in return, but I don't know what they are thinking, all I know is they will model it off of Horseshoe and Muir. 

If you want to know what the climbing is like, go climb at St. Francois State Park or Washington State Park. While you are there, Imagine if another bluff were stacked on top of it, that is Robinson. 

No worries, Doug, I was just looking for more details on how much development had been done so far. I'm stoked to have another crag within reasonable driving distance of Chicago land! There's a good chance I'll be heading down there to check it out this summer.

kck wrote:

How much is the fee? Couldn't see it on the website at first glance.

I think I heard somewhere around 10 bucks