Scarpa Phantom Tech or Phantom 6000

Hi Everyone

I demoed the Scarpa Phantom Tech's at the Ouray Ice Fest last weekend and liked they way they felt and climbed. I'm thinking of buying a pair and will be using them with Cassin Blade Runner crampons.

However, now I'm trying to decide between the Phantom 6000's or the Tech's. Over the next 3 years I will be using the boots for ice climbing in the North East (Catskills and Adirondacks) and would like to climb Mt Washington, Mt Ranier and Denali.

Do you think I need 2 different boots for these applications or would the 6000's be good for both? I guess the question is, how is technical climbing in the 6000s compared to the Techs? I've done some research and people say that the sole of the high mountain boots tends to wear out faster, I don't want to trash the boots walking on roads and compact snow on single day trips before getting to use them on a mountain. Also as to sizing, I read that you should go a size up in the double boots, the 43 was a good fit in the Tech's, do I get the 43 or 44 in the 6,000?

Thanks for your thoughts.

Ben

 This is assuming you’re going to climb water ice more than go on mountaineering trips.

 I would buy the Techs now and the 6000s when you need them. I have both the Techs and the 6000s. I wouldn’t wanna wear the 6000s ice climbing when its 30 outside and I wouldn’t wear the Techs summiting Denali. The Phantom Techs will be much more enjoyable climbing ice. If the weather is decent you can get away with Techs summiting Mt Washington if you do it in a day or stay in Harvard Cabin to do it in two.

 Sizing the 6000s for water ice and sizing for mountaineering two different things as well. My Techs and 6000s are a 46. If those 6000s were going Denali I would size them at least one size up. The 6000s do climb ice well. I was happy to have them this December and January as it was balls cold in the NE. That said you could get away with Techs on super cold days if you size them correctly. Make a plan to chase the sun and keep moving also.

6000s may be overkill for ice climbing in the Northeast (except on really cold days), Washington and Rainier, but I think Techs would be inadequate for Denali.

It's really a question of what you intend to use them for. If Denali is a aberration from your usual routine of ice/mixed cragging, I'd say go for the Techs. If you're looking to do multipitch WI2-M5ish only, you'll probably be OK with the clunkier and much warmer 6000s.

Bill Kirby wrote:

 This is assuming you’re going to climb water ice more than go on mountaineering trips.

 I would buy the Techs now and the 6000s when you need them. I have both the Techs and the 6000s. I wouldn’t wanna wear the 6000s ice climbing when its 30 outside and I wouldn’t wear the Techs summiting Denali. The Phantom Techs will be much more enjoyable climbing ice. If the weather is decent you can get away with Techs summiting Mt Washington if you do it in a day or stay in Harvard Cabin to do it in two.

 Sizing the 6000s for water ice and sizing for mountaineering two different things as well. My Techs and 6000s are a 46. If those 6000s were going Denali I would size them at least one size up. The 6000s do climb ice well. I was happy to have them this December and January as it was balls cold in the NE. That said you could get away with Techs on super cold days if you size them correctly. Make a plan to chase the sun and keep moving also.

Haha, yeah. Do you want to stay in and drink beer on balls-cold days or on bluebird days in the 30s?

I guess it depends on what your goal route on denali is? If you plan to climb a route like the cassin ridge then you will want to learn to climb hard in the 6000s. But since your plan is more long term I would say go with the techs for now and then the year before denali get the 6000s and use them for everything so your really comfortable with how they climb.

This is the classic I drive 95 percent Highway 5 percent off-road so I got a monster truck.   Jk but I would get the boot that caters to what most of your climbing is doing.   You can buy or rent boots if/when Denali happens.   That being said an above poster said WI2 in 6000s...  they can definitely climb hard.  A bit softer than my lowa Weissenhorns but still climb very well.  

greggrylls wrote:

This is the classic I drive 95 percent Highway 5 percent off-road so I got a monster truck.   Jk but I would get the boot that caters to what most of your climbing is doing.   You can buy or rent boots if/when Denali happens.   That being said an above poster said WI2 in 6000s...  they can definitely climb hard.  A bit softer than my lowa Weissenhorns but still climb very well.  

I meant WI2 through M5, implying WI3, 4, 5 and M4, 5. I personally wouldn't enjoy trying to climb WI5 or M6 with 6000s, but I'm not that hard.

AThomas wrote:

I meant WI2 through M5, implying WI3, 4, 5 and M4, 5. I personally wouldn't enjoy trying to climb WI5 or M6 with 6000s, but I'm not that hard.

ahh I misunderstood I thought you meant WI2 was their upper end ice limit.  
My mistake

I went through the same decision process, bought the 6000s when they were closing out the older model two seasons ago, and have yet to regret it.  Very comfortable on cold days in CO and have used them on days up to 40 F without discomfort.  I only lead WI3 / low WI4, though. I am a US M 10.5 and the 45s in the 6000s work well for me.

Hi Bill, AT, Eric and Greg

Thanks for your responses, based of what you have said I am going to go ahead with the Tech's, I have 2 ice climbing trips planed to the Catskills and back to Ouray within the next month and anything requiring the 6,000's is still an idea with no planning done. I would definitely prefer th have 2 pairs of boots in the long run and I think I just needed some to convincing to pay the extra money instead of try to compromise!

Happy climbing

Ben

Hi Xam

Just saw your post after I hit submit on the one above, did you try both before you went ahead with the 6,000's, what did you think of the performance difference? I'm not a great climber but do like to climb single pitch vertical ice.  Has the sole held up well over the past years?

Ben

FWIW, The 6000 are not a boot I would use on Denali unless your feet run warm. I used the 8000 on the Cassin. As for sizing, Depending on your sock combination a half size different between the Techs and the 6000/8000s. I use the Techs in the winter for ice and the no longer made Carbon version in the summer. 

Ben Vining wrote:

Hi Xam

Just saw your post after I hit submit on the one above, did you try both before you went ahead with the 6,000's, what did you think of the performance difference? I'm not a great climber but do like to climb single pitch vertical ice.  Has the sole held up well over the past years?

Ben

Hi Ben,

I don't think you will be disappointed with going with the Phantom Techs now.  I do have a pair of singles (not Scarpa) that I use in spring for more mountaineering / couloir days where the 6000s would be ridiculous.  I do prefer the 6000s for pure ice days and don't think they will hold you back for anything you might climb in near term. I did not climb in the Techs so no insight there.  The sole on the 6000s is fine but the rand where the supergater attaches is showing some wear.  I have maybe 35-40 days on the 6000s so not the most extensive stress test.  Based on current wear with my use (mostly snow), I would estimate that they can go 2-3 times that before they could start to be considered 'worn out'.  Hope this helps.

-Max

Allen Sanderson wrote:

FWIW, The 6000 are not a boot I would use on Denali unless your feet run warm. I used the 8000 on the Cassin. As for sizing, Depending on your sock combination a half size different between the Phantoms and the 6000/8000s. I use the Techs in the winter for ice and the no longer made Carbon version in the summer. 

I was wondering about this. Good point on the 8000s.

Thanks everyone for your comments, I am getting the Tech’s now and will go to The Mountaineer in the future to try on the 6,000s/ 8,000’s once I have a firm plan for Denali.

Ben Vining wrote:

Thanks everyone for your comments, I am getting the Tech’s now and will go to The Mountaineer in the future to try on the 6,000s/ 8,000’s once I have a firm plan for Denali.

Cool. I'm jealous.

I, too, own both and climb mostly in the Adirondacks & Whites.  Just like Bill Kirby said, when I needed the 6000s due to our severe cold, I was damn glad to have them.  However, 95% of the time, I use my Techs & love them.  Another vote for buying Techs, then 6000s when you actually pull-the-trigger on a big mountain trip.  All the peaks you mentioned - I believe you can now rent double boots from guide services/climbing shops out west.