Edelrid OHM

Ryan Kelley wrote:

Whatever my gym hands out for a lead rope. 

In my experience most gyms hand out 10.2mm ropes.  That might explain the short roping.

Christopher Smith wrote:

In my experience most gyms hand out 10.2mm ropes.  That might explain the short roping.

To my knowledge, I have not short-roped anyone on gym ropes while using an OHM, though my indoor OHM experience is limited. We really have not had any problem with it at all.

Christopher Smith wrote:

In my experience most gyms hand out 10.2mm ropes.  That might explain the short roping.

In my experience, I've never seen a gym hand out ropes for lead climbing, everywhere I've ever been you bring your own rope.

Ken Noyce wrote:

In my experience, I've never seen a gym hand out ropes for lead climbing, everywhere I've ever been you bring your own rope.

The gym I have a membership at does.  You have to give them collateral like your ID.  They do a good job of inspecting them though and retire them as necessary.

Ken Noyce wrote:

In my experience, I've never seen a gym hand out ropes for lead climbing, everywhere I've ever been you bring your own rope.

I've seen quite a few gyms throughout the US during my travels that DO hand out ropes. None in UT will though.

Ken Noyce wrote:

In my experience, I've never seen a gym hand out ropes for lead climbing, everywhere I've ever been you bring your own rope.

While I think that BYOR is the norm, I have climbed at gyms that provide lead ropes.

Ice4life wrote:

I've seen quite a few gyms throughout the US during my travels that DO hand out ropes. None in UT will though.

Very interesting.  I think I've only climbed at gyms in CA, UT, TX, and AK, so obviously not a huge sampling, but every gym I've been to has required your own rope for leading.

Ken Noyce wrote:

In my experience, I've never seen a gym hand out ropes for lead climbing, everywhere I've ever been you bring your own rope.

You aren't allowed to use your own at my gym. They are generally really thick, and when I first got the Ohm, I short roped my partner a few times. With experience, it's less of an issue.

Ken Noyce wrote:

In my experience, I've never seen a gym hand out ropes for lead climbing, everywhere I've ever been you bring your own rope.

With the exception of the province of Ontario (and maybe Quebec too....) the vast majority of climbing gyms in Canada do not allow you to lead on your own rope.  You have to use the gym's ropes to lead.

I consider a gym where you have to bring your own rope akin to a restaurant where you have to bring your own utensils.

In the gym(s) I work for, if someone were to insist on climbing on their own rope, it would not be allowed.  I don't even think our insurance would be too happy about it either, at least, not until certain terms are renegotiated.

It amazes me that so many American gyms are run this way.  How is it that their insurance  is OK with that level of liability and risk exposure?  Isn't this the land of if you so much as fart in the wrong direction someone will want to sue you?

Khoi wrote:

With the exception of the province of Ontario (and maybe Quebec too....) the vast majority of climbing gyms in Canada do not allow you to lead on your own rope.  You have to use the gym's ropes to lead.

I consider a gym where you have to bring your own rope akin to a restaurant where you have to bring your own utensils.

In the gym(s) I work for, if someone were to insist on climbing on their own rope, it would not be allowed.  I don't even think our insurance would be too happy about it either, at least, not until certain terms are renegotiated.

It amazes me that so many American gyms are run this way.  How is it that their insurance  is OK with that level of liability and risk exposure?  Isn't this the land of if you so much as fart in the wrong direction someone will want to sue you?

That's the perception garnered by the media, but not the reality.  

Also, when is the last time a climbing rope broke in a fall?

Khoi wrote:

It amazes me that so many American gyms are run this way.  How is it that their insurance  is OK with that level of liability and risk exposure?  Isn't this the land of if you so much as fart in the wrong direction someone will want to sue you?

I'd imagine we have different liability laws on this specific stuff (and it probably varies state to state).  Also the gyms that allow it probably structure their liability waiver forms differently. Also maybe the climbing community (and our families) just isn't that litigious so it hasn't been a big enough issue yet.

Christopher Smith wrote:

I'd imagine we have different liability laws on this specific stuff (and it probably varies state to state).  Also the gyms that allow it probably structure their liability waiver forms differently. Also maybe the climbing community (and our families) just isn't that litigious so it hasn't been a big enough issue yet.

The broader question to ask first is whether there are any documented instances of someone bringing a climbing rope into a gym and having an accident (related to the condition or quality of the rope).  If no, then the fear of litigation is phantom.  If yes, then we can ask why there is no litigation (if that is indeed the case).

B Owens wrote:

That's the perception garnered by the media, but not the reality.  

Also, when is the last time a climbing rope broke in a fall?

I'm not concerned that their climbing rope will break.  I'm concerned that they're coming in with a rope that is inappropriate to use for climbing.  Working in climbing gyms I've had to tell someone that they can't use a Petzl Croll as their belay device, that they can't use their caving harness, that they can't use their 20-year-old harness, etc.  Hell!  My boss had to tell one guy that he couldn't use his "belay device".  It was from Korea.  The writing on it said "Bae Bong".  Neither of us had ever seen it, or anything like it before - and I collect belay devices!

Some people are cheap when they shouldn't be.  It's relatively easy for a gym staff person to recognize a belay device or harness that is unacceptable.  It is not easy for a gym staff person, or most people, to recognize a rope that should not be used for leading, like a static rope, a semi-static rope, or a rope that isn't even made for ANY type of climbing.

Khoi wrote:

With the exception of the province of Ontario (and maybe Quebec too....) the vast majority of climbing gyms in Canada do not allow you to lead on your own rope.  You have to use the gym's ropes to lead.

I consider a gym where you have to bring your own rope akin to a restaurant where you have to bring your own utensils.

In the gym(s) I work for, if someone were to insist on climbing on their own rope, it would not be allowed.  I don't even think our insurance would be too happy about it either, at least, not until certain terms are renegotiated.

It amazes me that so many American gyms are run this way.  How is it that their insurance  is OK with that level of liability and risk exposure?  Isn't this the land of if you so much as fart in the wrong direction someone will want to sue you?

How curious, here in Germany (and the other European countries I´ve been to) the gym might hire you a lead rope but my local ones don´t for sure. We don´t even have floor supervision anyway (or belay checks and all that rubbish either) and they sell beer. It´s like climbing outdoors  

Jim Titt wrote:

How curious, here in Germany (and the other European countries I´ve been to) the gym might hire you a lead rope but my local ones don´t for sure. We don´t even have floor supervision anyway (or belay checks and all that rubbish either) and they sell beer. It´s like climbing outdoors  

I have heard about such gyms in certain European countries... AND I LOVE IT!!!

I love that the culture is so different in those regards.  I love the emphasis on individual responsibility and having the onus of safely resting on the people who choose to engage in the activity.  I love that there is no expectation that staff will babysit you and protect you from your own stupidity and/or ignorance.

Khoi wrote:

I have heard about such gyms in certain European countries... AND I LOVE IT!!!

I love that the culture is so different in those regards.  I love the emphasis on individual responsibility and having the onus of safely resting on the people who choose to engage in the activity.  I love that there is no expectation that staff will babysit you and protect you from your own stupidity and/or ignorance.

It´s because we live in some neo-communist/socialist place where the government controls everything and individual thought is prohibited, not the land of the free!

The new Gravity Vault in Radnor, PA (outside Philly) requires you to use their lead ropes (which they have for free, but only have a limited number and won't let you bring your own), and use a grigri for lead and TR.  ALL the TR are hanging with grigri zip-tied and  loaded on a  rope with a stopper knot ALSO ZIPTIED.  They also give you a grigri when you borrow their lead ropes.  As i said, NO ATC allowed, and you have to use one of THEIR grigri.

Got back from a winter trip to Poland and during a wet spell dropped into a gym in Wroclaw.  Walked in, signed a paper that said I can belay (lead and TR), they gave me a rope and we went about our way. No questions asked. No supervision.

I didn't know gyms like this existed. Colorado gyms (that I've been to) all allow you to use your own harness, belay device, and rope, while also providing all of those things for free to borrow (as well as an ohm). No restrictions on type of belay device. The belay devices for rent are all simple BD ATC's (I assume for cost vs grigri).

But don't move here. 

The climbing (and skiing/snowboarding/Mtn biking/backpacking/hiking/craft breweries) are terrible. 

JRZane wrote:

The new Gravity Vault in Radnor, PA (outside Philly) requires you to use their lead ropes (which they have for free, but only have a limited number and won't let you bring your own), and use a grigri for lead and TR.  ALL the TR are hanging with grigri zip-tied and  loaded on a  rope with a stopper knot ALSO ZIPTIED.  They also give you a grigri when you borrow their lead ropes.  As i said, NO ATC allowed, and you have to use one of THEIR grigri.

Got back from a winter trip to Poland and during a wet spell dropped into a gym in Wroclaw.  Walked in, signed a paper that said I can belay (lead and TR), they gave me a rope and we went about our way. No questions asked. No supervision.

Yeah, that new GV is a little over the top. They also won't let kids boulder (unless they're on a team). I'm not a fan of the "Pre-Gri" setup, but I've seen it in several gyms. Philly Rock Gyms won't let kids boulder unless they're on _their_ team. It's a little nuts. I don't see how it's a great idea to make people belay with a device they're not familiar with.

Back to the real topic.

Do you think it would be a huge problem to attach a small keeper cord to the front bottom section of the OHM so the belayer could grab and pull the device down and disengage it? I almost got stuck at the top of a route and had to pull myself down a little ways on the belayer's side of the rope. If the route had been steep and I couldn't have pulled myself up to unweight the OHM, I might still be sitting up there.

Great device that needs some serious manufacture's modifications before V.2 comes out. The belayer should ALWAYS be able to flick the device free from camming the rope locked. Maybe it just needs to start 20-30% more "broken in". Or just have a slightly different design all together. Glad I have it, but I really hope it breaks in and stops pulling me off the wall. Silver lining is it's getting me strong pulling up an extra 20lbs!