Requesting "Ladies Crag" forum

I remember the Ladies' Forum on rc and I liked it. I think it is a fine idea. As others have said, having this type of forum option and cracking down on bad behavior in the regular forms are not mutually exclusive ideas. I recall men were allowed to post there but it seemed to weed out the shit. I definitely post less than I used to because I get tired of the constant drivel, personal attacks, and those who feel it is their duty to constantly be devil's advocate (whether gender related or not). And the people doing this are not always trolls, although the trolls really degrade things too. I'm always amazed at the number of insecure and bored people out there with a computer and Wifi. 

I'm tired of hearing men use derogatory terms and phrases based on women's anatomy or otherwise alluding to being "like" a woman/girl as a point of insult. I'm sorry but I am in no way inferior to a penis. I've also been called out for being "mean" - while men who post almost identical comments are given a pass. Absolute double standard and seriously ridiculous. Fuck the concept that women need to be accommodating and nice all the time. I also don't like the creepy/lewd comments on pictures. Regular comments are fine. By pure coincidence, this photo happened to pop up on the front page and look at the comment posted below. I'm sorry, but that is uncalled for (as well as the username - as if!). Keep it in your head!

Sometimes I read posts and I have a strong opinion and want to comment and support other women's voices, but when it comes right down to it I decide not to because I just don't have enough time in my life or desire to deal with the negative energy of defending myself and others' points of view endlessly. Yes, it is exhausting. 

As a last thought, I am okay and appreciate men who stand up for women (and other underrepresented groups). I don't see it as white knight syndrome. I'm fine with it and I believe it's necessary for progress in society. We all need friends to help us out.  

A ladies forum would be great.  

Maybe they'd spend more time spraying online and less time warming up on my projects.

Does MP have a time out? It seems a great tool.  

Edit: I mean besides thelimit on posts per day. Yeah - I know about that one.

I'd be interested in hearing if women envision the Ladies-Only Forum:

1. Restricted to female members?  We'd presumably make a system where a woman asks to join and we grant permission for that account.  There would be female fakers, but easy to remove them if one becomes a problem.
2. Or open to all but heavily moderated when men butt in?  As the person who does the moderation, this sounds like a headache for me personally... and semi defeating the purpose of an exclusive place.

And a follow-up for scenario #1: what about displaying the Ladies-Only Forum topics on the Home Page and What's New?  Would only female members of the forum see the latest (which would severely restrict the visibility of the forum, resulting in very few members), or we would show the topic title to everyone (perhaps with a little "female" icon to indicate its status), but only female members could click through?

I have mixed thoughts about the whole safe space thing but I think that it shouldn't be segregated or exclusive. If you're gonna provide a safe space, it ought to be available to everybody who wants a safe space. Women, LGBT+ community, racial minorities, seniors, etc.

I personally would like to hear more of a woman's perspective on a little of things in climbing, not just this inclusive issue. I would be disappointed if I wasn't able to hear what women have to say once all of the lurking women start posting. In this regard, I think a heavily moderated section would be preferable to an exclusive or restricted sub-forum. 

Nick, on your points:

1. Certainly don't restrict the readership, at all, or you have defeated encouraging new people to participate. I bow to the others on who gets to post, I'm the wild eyed liberal here, on that, but I do think anyone who gets too many down votes of some sort could get kicked off that forum. 

EDIT to add, the down.votes would need to be for the ladies only, I think. That could still allow men to participate, but with the knowledge that the ladies are in essence moderating.

Flags could still be used to alert you to someone who needs to be kicked hard.

2. Isn't this what interns were invented for??

Best, Helen

And thanks, sir. We're a PITB, I'm sure.

This whole discussion is utterly stupid.

There's no harm that can come from a women's forum. Let the women posting in this thread mod it to their liking. Men, shut the fuck up and stay away from the women's forum. If you try and fuck with the women's forum your post will be deleted. If any men are butthurt give them a Men's only forum in the same format. This is the internet, space is unlimited for stupid bullshit and we don't need to debate if we should or shouldn't add any.

This whole thing is a non-issue, so another vote from the Tradiban and disciples for a women's forum.

Looks like Tradiban has gone asexual. You might want to remove "Scottmx426's Mom" from the list of places you have climbed - or maybe not.  ;-) 

If you folks go down this segregation by gender/race/whatever path....I second the request to have the option to hide such posts from the Latest list, just like the buy and sell.

If the ladies want a ladies forum, sweet.

Those calling for heavier moderation, if you can’t handle a juvenile/asinine comments on an Internet forum how do you make it through everyday life? My problem with moderation is that it would be the admins dictating what goes and what does not. It starts to sound less and less like a community and more like a country club.  

I agree on keeping the posts from appearing in the latest posts list. I think a lot of us go straight to that rather than through the sub-sections. I think this might be one reason why some of the newbie questions take so much heat - they are in the Beginner Forum but people don’t seem to recognize that and might respond more kindly if they did (or perhaps not, some people are just assholes). I don’t expect I will take advantage of a Ladies forum, prefer to engage with the larger community. But maybe it will be really great - won’t judge until I see it. 

I do think the moderation needs to be equal/consistent across the site (if heavier moderation is needed in a Ladies forum it is certainly needed in the Beginner forum). If all of this is falling on you Nick, that is a big (and unsustainable) ask. Not sure how you can streamline that process. 

mediocre wrote:

Those calling for heavier moderation, if you can’t handle a juvenile/asinine comments on an Internet forum how do you make it through everyday life?

On the other hand, if you can't handle moderation on an internet forum, how do you make it through the "moderation" that you're subject to in everyday life (e.g., getting a ticket for speeding; getting jailed if you assault somebody; etc.)?

JL

saxfiend wrote:

On the other hand, if you can't handle moderation on an internet forum, how do you make it through the "moderation" that you're subject to in everyday life (e.g., getting a ticket for speeding; getting jailed if you assault somebody; etc.)?

JL

Aye. And the benefits that come with it are tangible to me in other ways as well. I think MP is now a more constructive site than it was before the uptick in moderator action. And  I think there are additional positive gains to be had.

mediocre wrote:

If the ladies want a ladies forum, sweet.

Those calling for heavier moderation, if you can’t handle a juvenile/asinine comments on an Internet forum how do you make it through everyday life? My problem with moderation is that it would be the admins dictating what goes and what does not. It starts to sound less and less like a community and more like a country club.  

I suspect that most people here can handle a juvenile or asinine comment. The bigger issue is of course when said comments cross over into sexist/racist/hate speech territory.

wonderwoman wrote:

I feel like when I do get my knuckles skinned up for calling people out for bad behavior, I have lately been accused of being ‘PC’.

I try to point out that ‘I am not being PC.  You’re just being an asshole.’

If the offender is sexist, they are not likely to take what a woman says seriously, anyway.  This is why we need more awesome guys speaking up for us, too.  Thank to all of you who do.  

A moderated Ladies Room would also be super helpful in getting women to participate in our community.

That whole "You're just PC" attitude is so pervasive that it swept an asshole into office as POTUS.  Sad.

Instead of dealing with the problem, we perpetuate it. 

Classifying people into anything other than Human, continues to perpetuate the issues. 

Embarrassed to say wrote:

Instead of dealing with the problem, we perpetuate it. 

Classifying people into anything other than Human, continues to perpetuate the issues. 

I know nothing about you, but this is a comment often made by white men oblivious to their inherent privilege.

If the women of MP want a gender specific forum, that is more than enough reason to create one. 

Unless of course REI thinks they will lose a significant portion of their consumer base by being perceived as censors, in which case we're all SOL.

I support the concept of a women's forum and tougher moderation site wide. 

(Edited since I didn't get the joke)

snobbit wrote:

YES THE MEAN WIMMENS IS GONNA EAT YOU

Edit: others beat me to it. FWIW, I flagged this and a number of other comments on this thread that I think should be deleted. I support the concept of a women's forum and tougher moderation site wide. 

The fact that you are flagging so many posts reinforces what others have said about needing thicker skin. Just because someone says something you don't like and you want removed is akin to "I'm telling." Unless it's extremely vulgar or racist/sexist, let it ride. 

This post will self-destruct (but not by me) in 3, 2...

Edit: Why was the "heads on stakes" comment so offensive? 

Old lady H wrote:

WW and Pete, too, there's a big difference between me choosing to pm someone who is just being a jerk and might think differently of their beer post later, especially when a live body is who they are spitting on, "face to face".

There is also a big difference between the "this post violated" box, so we all know someone crossed a line, and just yanking the things.

Then, all of us should agree there are posts that need to be disappeared asap, and that account barred. I was party to one of those, and Nick admirably hustled it into oblivion very quickly. I wasn't the subject, exactly, but was the one person on at the time, and there to flag it.

I do not think our volunteer admins should have to interact with the really dangerous people, or even the annoying. Sorry, I'm fine with leaving that to Nick, to push the button.

Flagging, sure. All of us can step up to do that.

Best, OLH

Having moderated other forums, I concur.

A psycho on a different forum once threatened a public figure who happened to be a friend (from a friendship developed online).  That incident informed me about this topic.  The most dangerous moment is when that real, bona fide psycho shows up on the forum.  Not responding is most dangerous. Responding requires wisdom:  the anger may turn from whoever / whatever first triggered their response to the moderator who calls them on it..if they can identify that person -- either as an online persona or as a real live person.

I very much appreciate Nick's active moderation.  He's done a good job.

Oh, and do I want a women's forum?  Eh...maybe.  It's not something I need, but I appreciate the wish.