Mountain Project Logo

Stuck rope between belayer and climber on lower

Original Post
David K · · The Road, Sometimes Chattan… · Joined Jan 2017 · Points: 434

I had this situation yesterday. I was on the ground and my partner, a new trad leader, had just completed a single pitch route. Coming from sport, he wasn't used to wandering routes, and had pulled the rope into a crack. I couldn't see this from the ground. When he weighted the rope for me to lower him, the rope tightened into the crack and got stuck. He couldn't climb back up because the territory he had been lowered across already was blank, and I couldn't climb up without some system because a) if the rope came unstuck with the slack I generated from climbing, he would fall, and b) I wouldn't be belayed.

The self-rescue solution I came up with was to begin climbing up, using Prusiks for safety as if I were TR soloing on a fixed line, but also cleaning the route, with his weight counterbalancing mine if the rope came unstuck. What I didn't like about this plan is that the slack behind me as I climbed could get stuck, so I'd have to coil this on my harness somehow. Today I thought of using cloves on carabiners, the benefit to this being that it creates a backup should my Prusiks lose friction, but that wouldn't have done me much good because I didn't think of it at the time.

The end of the story is that I tied him off and made a rescue phone call to some climbers we had met earlier; one climbed the route using the gear my partner placed as if it were a sport route, and unstuck the rope. This seemed easier and safer than doing something I hadn't practiced (I've practiced Prusik-ing up a fixed line and had to do it a few times, but not the rest of the scenario).

But I'm wondering how my plan would have worked if outside help wasn't available. Is there anything about my plan that I didn't think of? Is there a better way?

EDIT: I wasn't comfortable asking my leader to jug up the line because I had taught him the Prusik knot that day.

David K · · The Road, Sometimes Chattan… · Joined Jan 2017 · Points: 434
John Wilder wrote:

Depends on where the rope was stuck. 

If it's down low, near you, this is where a grigri is pretty nice to have. Just belay yourself up to free the line.

Yeah, I only had my DMM Pivot for belay, I was kicking myself for forgetting my Click Up (which I usually use for belaying the leader).

If you don't have a grigri, prusiking up or some other self belay method will do. 

So you think my plan was okay, basically?

Up high, have the leader jug back up and then lower on trolley to free the line. 

It was stuck up high, but I wasn't comfortable yelling up jugging instructions because I had just taught him the Prusik that day. I'm not sure what you mean by "lower on trolley".

David K · · The Road, Sometimes Chattan… · Joined Jan 2017 · Points: 434

Ah, I've done that, but never heard it called lowering on a trolley. Neat, new lingo!

Kees van der Heiden · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2016 · Points: 40

In a situation like that I would ask the leader to prusik up to the anchor and fix the rope there. Now you can climb/prusik up to the spot where the rope is stuck in complete safety.

Pnelson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2015 · Points: 635
David Kerkeslager wrote:

Yeah, I've done a similar move to the "self-rescue solution" in a similar circumstance where a rope got wedged between a cam and a crack.  I was belaying the leader with a grigri, so when the rope got stuck I just kept myself on belay with the grigri, climbing up to the point where it was stuck, unstuck it, and then lowered back to the ground.  Fortunately, I did not have to ever weight the rope as I climbed.  In this case I was not worried about the slack behind me, since I was just going back down anyway, rather than finishing the pitch to the anchors.

rgold · · Poughkeepsie, NY · Joined Feb 2008 · Points: 526

If the rope wedges in a crack and then is continually weighted by a prussiking second, I think there is an excellent chance that the rope will be permanently fixed by all the loading by the time the second arrives at the constriction.  The decision to call in the cavalry was certainly the best one and is almost always preferable to the risks associated with self-rescue procedures.  

What's wrong in this situation is that the leader couldn't prussik back up his rope to the top.   You don't have to have the full complement of almost never to be used self-rescue techniques to start leading, but both new trad leaders and seconds have to be able to prussik a rope, and should be carrying minimal gear for doing this.  They should learn how to do this before learning anything about placing gear, for example, as it is something a second might have to do.   You can learn to prussik in a gym or on a tree in someone's back yard---there's no good reason not to be able to do it.

Bill Lawry · · Albuquerque, NM · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 1,815

I'm a bit of a self-rescue geek - though not always smart about it.   :-)  I think both the choice you made then and the questions here now - and answers - are great.  And I agree with rgold: ascending the rope should be one of the earliest skills acquired.

With time and experience, the likelihood of avoiding this will get better.  I know you already said he was a beginner.  Still, when the risk is recognized by the leader, there are a number of options to avoid it ...

You already mentioned the leader possibly protecting the line in a way that prevents the rope from getting stuck in the crack.

Another avoidance is to rap instead of lowering.  Wandering routes are tough, though.  There might be a need to redirect the rope while rapping so the next follower is still protected, assuming this can be done without also sticking the rope.

And last I can think of now is to belay from above.  That may avoid a stuck rope assuming the follower weighting the rope wouldn't then be an issue or could then be more easily resolved.

Gunkiemike · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 3,717

It's always fun to armchair these sorts of scenarios. +1 to rgold that every leader really must know how to prusik a rope; that is "self-rescue 101". Without that tool at your disposal, things can get somewhat grim in a hurry.

Suggestion to the arm-chairers thinking about OP's pickle - I can think of a few details that could arise and make thinking "What would I have done?" more fun. And IMO at least, these things ARE fun. Maybe Type 2 fun, but fun anyway. And I say that having been stuck while being lowered on 2 occasions, each with its own unique twists.  Anyway, consider: Is it the leader's strand or the belayer's side that is stuck?  If the latter, is it stuck above the leader or below. Can the leader reach the belayer's side? Is the rope pinched in some reachable spot, or is it 4 feet inside a 7" crack? Are BOTH strands deep in a crack and you don't even know which side is pinched (BTDT)?

Eric Engberg · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2009 · Points: 0
David Kerkeslager wrote: Ah, I've done that, but never heard it called lowering on a trolley. Neat, new lingo!

or "tram"

David K · · The Road, Sometimes Chattan… · Joined Jan 2017 · Points: 434
rgold wrote:

If the rope wedges in a crack and then is continually weighted by a prussiking second, I think there is an excellent chance that the rope will be permanently fixed by all the loading by the time the second arrives at the constriction.  The decision to call in the cavalry was certainly the best one and is almost always preferable to the risks associated with self-rescue procedures.  

I wouldn't have been continually weighting the rope--the route was well within my abilities, so I probably wouldn't have weighted the rope at all. However, if the rope did become fixed, at least I'd have a way to get the leader down: once I reach the fixed constriction I can build an anchor and fix both strands, belay the leader up to that anchor, then have them rap down on the fixed strand that I ascended.

I have a question about this, though: why is permanently fixing the rope a more of a problem if the second is the one doing the ascending? Isn't it just as likely that the leader will cause the rope to become fixed if they ascend? Or is it just because the leader doesn't have to ascend as far?

What's wrong in this situation is that the leader couldn't prussik back up his rope to the top.   You don't have to have the full complement of almost never to be used self-rescue techniques to start leading, but both new trad leaders and seconds have to be able to prussik a rope, and should be carrying minimal gear for doing this.  They should learn how to do this before learning anything about placing gear, for example, as it is something a second might have to do.   You can learn to prussik in a gym or on a tree in someone's back yard---there's no good reason not to be able to do it.

Yeah--lesson learned. I'm definitely going to make sure more junior climbers know how to prusik.

David K · · The Road, Sometimes Chattan… · Joined Jan 2017 · Points: 434
Gunkiemike wrote:

It's always fun to armchair these sorts of scenarios. +1 to rgold that every leader really must know how to prusik a rope; that is "self-rescue 101". Without that tool at your disposal, things can get somewhat grim in a hurry.

Suggestion to the arm-chairers thinking about OP's pickle - I can think of a few details that could arise and make thinking "What would I have done?" more fun. And IMO at least, these things ARE fun. Maybe Type 2 fun, but fun anyway. And I say that having been stuck while being lowered on 2 occasions, each with its own unique twists.  Anyway, consider: Is it the leader's strand or the belayer's side that is stuck?  If the latter, is it stuck above the leader or below. Can the leader reach the belayer's side? Is the rope pinched in some reachable spot, or is it 4 feet inside a 7" crack? Are BOTH strands deep in a crack and you don't even know which side is pinched (BTDT)?

Gunkiemike, I kept this abstract for the general MP crowd, but since you're sure to be familiar with the route, it was the first pitch of Horseman. The crack where the rope got stuck is on the arete coming around from the traverse onto the face. The leader climbs 5.11 in Rumney, so it's well within his ability, but I wanted him to get a feel for Gunks exposure and wandering routes (with potential for rope drag) because those are things he hasn't seen much of doing sport. In retrospect, the wandering there is a bit too much, so the route choice was maybe ill-advised. At least I was smart enough to not plan on having him link the pitches.

Gunkiemike · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 3,717
David Kerkeslager wrote:

Gunkiemike, I kept this abstract for the general MP crowd, but since you're sure to be familiar with the route, it was the first pitch of Horseman. The crack where the rope got stuck is on the arete coming around from the traverse onto the face. The leader climbs 5.11 in Rumney, so it's well within his ability, but I wanted him to get a feel for Gunks exposure and wandering routes (with potential for rope drag) because those are things he hasn't seen much of doing sport. In retrospect, the wandering there is a bit too much, so the route choice was maybe ill-advised. At least I was smart enough to not plan on having him link the pitches.

I wouldn't fault the route selection necessarily. But the decision to have him lower off was, in the clarity of retrospection, a bad move. His runner skills also don't seem to have been up to the task. That's not uncommon at all; I've seen strong, smart sport climbers clip nearly every cam short (no draw or runner) on wandering lines, with the predictable rope drag nightmare. The answer is that more sport climbs need to be bolted in a severe zig-zag fashion so they learn about runners. (Uh oh, did I say that?)

rgold · · Poughkeepsie, NY · Joined Feb 2008 · Points: 526
David Kerkeslager wrote:

I have a question about this, though: why is permanently fixing the rope a more of a problem if the second is the one doing the ascending? Isn't it just as likely that the leader will cause the rope to become fixed if they ascend? Or is it just because the leader doesn't have to ascend as far?

It is possible that the rope could become fixed either way.  I think there is less chance if the leader prusiks for two reasons. (1) With the rope running up from the leader, through the top anchor and back down the the stuck place, friction in the system will result in a lower load---possibly considerably lower---than the more direct loading imposed by prusiking from below.  (2) Ropes that jam in cracks without having formed a kink generally do so because of a "cleat" effect: the crack tapers and the rope gets cleated.  Pulling from below enhances the cleating, pulling from above does not, at least not to the same extent.

Moreover, if the strand from the top anchor to the stuck point and the strand from the top anchor to the leader are near or next to each other, as will be the case in many situations, then the leader can put their prusiks on both stands and then the rope leading to the sticking point won't be loaded at all.  This process will be made easier if the prusiker can climb up a foot or two and start prusiking from there, so that one of the strands isn't under high tension, as this can hold it against the rock and make it hard to slide up the knots.  

The ability to prusik on two strands is a reason not to rely on tiblocks or other rope-clamp gadgets for emergency applications, as they can only be applied to a single strand, and it is also a reason to know how to prusik the old-fashioned way with two knots, rather than one knot and a locking belay device on the harness.

David K · · The Road, Sometimes Chattan… · Joined Jan 2017 · Points: 434
rgold wrote:

Moreover, if the strand from the top anchor to the stuck point and the strand from the top anchor to the leader are near or next to each other, as will be the case in many situations, then the leader can put their prusiks on both stands and then the rope leading to the sticking point won't be loaded at all.  This process will be made easier if the prusiker can climb up a foot or two and start prusiking from there, so that one of the strands isn't under high tension, as this can hold it against the rock and make it hard to slide up the knots.  

I see what you're saying here, and how it applies to most situations. But in this case, the anchor occurs at the end of a long traverse, and the sticking point was at the midpoint of said traverse. So the climber was being lowered away from the route entirely (onto a 5.11 route, actually--the route he did being 5.5). So this is one of the weird edge cases where you coudn't prusik on 2 strands.

The ability to prusik on two strands is a reason not to rely on tiblocks or other rope-clamp gadgets for emergency applications, as they can only be applied to a single strand, and it is also a reason to know how to prusik the old-fashioned way with two knots, rather than one knot and a locking belay device on the harness.

Interesting point.

David K · · The Road, Sometimes Chattan… · Joined Jan 2017 · Points: 434
Gunkiemike wrote:

His runner skills also don't seem to have been up to the task. That's not uncommon at all; I've seen strong, smart sport climbers clip nearly every cam short (no draw or runner) on wandering lines, with the predictable rope drag nightmare.

Yeah, part of the reason I chose the route was I was sure if he didn't extend he'd get rope drag, because he hadn't been extending despite my admonishments on earlier climbs. Unfortunately a completely stuck rope is more rope drag than I was hoping for.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Trad Climbing
Post a Reply to "Stuck rope between belayer and climber on lower"

Log In to Reply
Welcome

Join the Community! It's FREE

Already have an account? Login to close this notice.