Is anyone here a pharmD? Are the hours flexible enough for you to get out? Everyone else: what's your career?

I’m an environmental chemist for a third-party regulatory testing lab.  Regular hours don’t exist.  I can work 8 hours a day, or 16 hours a day Monday-Friday.  You don’t even always know how long your days are going to be until you get in in the morning.  I compensate by starting at 6:30am so even on long days, I can hit up the gym after work.  

Luckily, weekends are typically free.  No take home work.  And I have 18 vacation days a year, plus 5 roll-over days (if I take them before May).  

You could also consider the idea of not having a "career".

Live modestly, work a normal person job you enjoy, perhaps even part time so you can raise a child.

I work 25 hours a week, with benefits including a pension and health insurance. I make very little money, but I can take vacations, have a regular schedule, and have flexibility in the hours I work.

I don't make much money, but what I do matters a lot to the people I serve. I have time for my family, friends, my self, and yes, can come in late on Wednesday so we can climb in the morning before it's hot. Did that for most of August.

Some things we accomplish aren't measured in degrees or money. I admit I'm not very good at what were supposed to be about in America. 

By choice.

Best, Helen

Luke R 84 wrote:

I just graduated Pharmacy School, and am 0 for 7 on jobs as a hospital pharmacist. I currently work at a grocery pharmacy and hated the first several weeks, but it is getting better. I work mostly 12 hour shifts so I have a lot of days off, but have been injured this summer, plus studying for boards and trying/failing at the job hunt. I love the profession overall, but hate many aspects of it too. 

Anyways, it's nice to have the potential for income (aka dealing with a lot of loans is about to crimp my style) and having the days off is nice for climbing or training, but it's been tough doing those too- life fills up pretty quick. If you were to go for it, it'd behoove you to live near a larger climbing scene, so you could find partners with similar schedules. 

Holy shit 12 hours shifts? So then what's your weekly schedule like? Work 4, 3 off? 

Lardtazium wrote:

Holy shit 12 hours shifts? So then what's your weekly schedule like? Work 4, 3 off? 

My son just got a first responder EMT job. As with many positions like this where responses are 24/7, he will work 48 hours a week. Shortest shift is 12, but as the new kid, they will assign his 48 as they see fit. Could be 48 straight through, 4 12s, any combination they need. 8 hours is automatically over time, built in.

Best, H.

I'm a PharmD, graduated in 2013. Didn't do a residency but got lucky though my network with landing a clinical position in a small, specialized hospital. Very exciting and fast paced environment. The schedule looked good on paper - 4 x 10hr days, meaning long weekends pretty often and lots of PTO (about 4 weeks). Downside is, everyone wants to squeeze more and more out of you. I eventually had to put in extra hours to get all my work done, so routinely did 12 hour shifts. Also nothing like a medical emergency at 4:59pm to throw a wrench in your evening's plans. Most days, I went to work not knowing what time I would get home that night. Plus, I was constantly stressed and sleep deprived. So naturally, I wasn't able to climb consistently or as often as I wanted to.

Now I work per-diem in a different hospital environment. Not very exciting or fast paced at all - and it's great for allowing me to focus my energies on climbing. Per-diem is nice as I get lots of flexibility and less responsibility. But the catch is that my scheduled shifts can change at anytime - either get cancelled when it's slow or get asked to go in early/stay late when it's busy. It's better than the first situation though, I fit in my climbing when I can and I've been able to dedicate more time to it. 

But I'm currently learning how to code so that I can become a developer. I think that profession suits my personality better and I'd really like to have a regular 9-5 or the option of working from home/remotely. 

One of my climbing partners is a retail pharmacist. Sometimes we climb in the mornings in an empty gym when we both have the closing shift or outside on a random weekday off when the crag isn't busy. It's nice. But he's miserable at his job and is looking for another. I was surprised to find out that he's salaried too, meaning he often puts in extra hours for free. I guess the days of $60+/hr in retail are over.

I guess to answer your title question: "flexible" is a relative term. Yes, sometimes I get to go climbing during non-peak times, but I more often than not have to turn down invitations to go climbing with my friends that work regular jobs. 

My advice to you: do your research first. Try to get some first-hand experience in a pharmacy. Maybe ask your local pharmacy school for help, they might be able to put you in touch with a preceptor who will let you shadow them. If it's something that you'd truly be passionate about, then go for it. Every career has its challenges and you'll find a way to balance your love for climbing and outdoor activities. But otherwise, look around. Others have posted good advice as well about alternatives. 

Good luck.

Dennis's post above, especially if he is the age claimed on his page, illustrates an excellent point.

A career in a chosen field is great, so is pursuing a degree, but it isn't the only choice, and you are actually allowed to change your mind. Sweat the truly forever decisions, like having kids. Almost nothing else is forever, except consequences we didn't see coming from things we probably didn't anticipate. Those, you have to learn to live with and mitigate as best you can.

It is also highly likely that your circumstances will change with time. That's okay too.

My favorite age group are you people in your twenties. It is truly tough to work out all this stuff, all at the same time, largely on your own. Just, stick with it, know it will change no matter how well you plan, and be prepared to adapt.

And have fun while you're at it! 

Best, OLH

Life Science PhD (biochemist, cell biology, etc) working as staff scientist in biotech. Grad school and postdoc weren't lucrative but offered great flexibility. I work M-F, 45/week at a mid sized company in Boston. Salary on par with PharmD. 

Weekend warrior lifestyle with finances/vacation to permit travel.

3-5 weeks vacation per year is standard. Downside is that jobs are volatile, so to avoid regular geographic relocations, Boston, NYC, San Diego, and San Fran are the hubs of choice. Seattle to a lesser extent.

Lots of alternative careers with a lifE science Ph.D., like teaching, consulting, business management, legal, etc. Legal's a grind but the others a very flexible.

Best of luck

Another RN here. As is the case with most nurses, I work 12 hr shifts, 3 shifts a week and can for the most part, self schedule what I want to work. I am required to work 6 weekend shifts in a 6 week period but I can throw those in however I want usually. Given that a lot of my friends are also in the medical field and work a similar schedule, we climb a lot on mid week random days while most everyone else is grinding away in the office. This last week I climbed most of the day on Tue/Wed and didn't see a sole until about 3:00 one of the days when we were just packing up to head out.

The pay is pretty decent depending on where you live. Living on the west coast now, nursing pay is pretty awesome and I live close to a lot of pretty decent climbing. It's worth a look if you want a really flexible schedule and decent pay. Someone earlier mentioned travel nursing: After you have a year or so of experience in a given area of nursing (ER, ICU, Floor, Whatever) you can go into travel nursing. You will work for a travel agency, tell them what kind of experience you have/job you are looking for and they will find you contracts in areas that you wish. You pick where you go, etc and are paid a taxable hourly wage, plus a non taxable daily per diem and a non taxable housing allowance. Some agencies can even provide housing for you. Travel contracts are typically 13 weeks in length and can sometimes be extended if they still need you and like you. You can only stay in one geographical area up to 1 year before you would have to move at least 50 miles away so that you are no longer considered a permanent resident of that area and eligible to be taxed on all of your income.

Good luck in the career search! If you choose nursing, understand that *almost ALL nursing schools suck and everyone hates life, but once you get a job it can really be a lot of fun and a good way to make a living.

Nursing student, here (even my wife is one too). And yes, we hate life but I still climb every week. I'm a tech in a cardiac ICU here in Denver, and I go to CU. we can't wait to be done and get back to 3 days/week schedule. Lots of opportunities in Denver for nursing, but no matter what path you choose in healthcare there's a pattern that can even be seen in this thread: trouble getting work as a new a grad. So get a crappy job while in school in the area that you want to work in. Trust me: it'll pay off. I'm a CNA in an ICU and I'm going right into the ICU after graduation and was really comfortable with the information through school. Graduation on Dec 16th cannot come soon enough. So. Freaking. Tired.

TJ B wrote:

Nursing student, here (even my wife is one too). And yes, we hate life but I still climb every week. I'm a tech in a cardiac ICU here in Denver, and I go to CU. we can't wait to be done and get back to 3 days/week schedule. Lots of opportunities in Denver for nursing, but no matter what path you choose in healthcare there's a pattern that can even be seen in this thread: trouble getting work as a new a grad. So get a crappy job while in school in the area that you want to work in. Trust me: it'll pay off. I'm a CNA in an ICU and I'm going right into the ICU after graduation and was really comfortable with the information through school. Graduation on Dec 16th cannot come soon enough. So. Freaking. Tired.

This is a good point. I worked as a tech in the ER for 4 years prior to finishing nursing school and started as a new grad there. From there I worked a little over a year and transferred up to our Trauma ICU and now work in a different ICU since we moved to California. Some areas are super easy to get a job anywhere you want, others can be really challenging.

I'm a full time hospital pharmacist in Canada since 1987.  Pharm.d in 2001.  Pay is good. I have a very engaging career in infectious diseases but the sacrifice I've made is in amount of time off & flexibility for play.  I always thought I'd have a "work to play" kind of career but found myself dreading entering the building in the morning and barely getting through a day earlier in my career, so kind of doubled down on the professional life to find something interesting.  I think for your job to be engaging and interesting requires commitment. If you have a nice 9-5 & regular shifts that you don't think about once you've gone out the door, it won't be very satisfying.  Even if you work minimally , its hard to just put in some hours.  

No regrets with my choice though & hoping to retire at about age 56-58 & I have been able to afford a place in the city and weekend place in mountains.  Good luck with whatever you chose.

Med student here. The best career in healthcare right now when you factor in cost, training time, pay, flexibility, and room for advancement is nursing. Want more scope? NP. Like playing with drugs? anesthesia. Want to move? High demand almost everywhere. Less time in the clinic? Administration. There are a lot of paths you can take with a background in nursing. All medical jobs are hard work with long hours, but if you want to work in healthcare, be stable, and climb a lot, nursing is the way to go. 

Old lady Hwrote:

A career in a chosen field is great, so is pursuing a degree, but it isn't the only choice, and you are actually allowed to change your mind. Sweat the truly forever decisions, like having kids. Almost nothing else is forever, except consequences we didn't see coming from things we probably didn't anticipate. Those, you have to learn to live with and mitigate as best you can.

Sage advice for real 

I finished med school but dropped out from internship, and what really made me do it was the realization that everyone I was surrounded by either were happy workaholics who had no hobbies, or miserable people because they had to give up their hobbies. I don't know why it took me so long to realize, because I was surrounded by miserable residents from Year 2. Find people locally who have jobs you are considering, and just plainly ask them in person; people are often very honest with their life choices and happy to guide the young. 

Considered grad school for PharmD, luckily they all rejected me. Landed as a Materials Chemist, R&D. I don't love it, but I don't hate it. Its generally engaging work, and only occasionally demands long hours or a weekend day once or twice a year to check in with our production sites. Plenty of time to get out, just not too much quality rock in the immediate vicinity. 

Have a pharmd here.  Didn't want to be a pharmacist half way through school for a number of reasons but felt committed to finish due to student loans.   I got lucky and work remote 8-4ish for a medical device company.  Not super glamorous but it is nice to be able to chose where you live.

OP was in 2017. They maybe made a decision by now????

Pharm.D here, graduated in 2009.  I've been a retail pharmacist in Hawai'i and Seattle, pediatric inpatient in Seattle, and an oncology pharmacist in Miami and currently in Seattle doing oncology infusion. My pharmacy journey has been a wild ride and almost doesn't make sense that I was able to work these specialties without residency but I am a determined person and earned my opportunities.  Pharmacy as a career is dead and your ROI on the time/loans is no longer viable.   The only real flexibility would be 7on/7off overnights but not everyone is built for that lifestyle.  I am fortunate that my infusion center is M-F 8am-4:30pm but sometimes a rotating schedule is better as you can hit the crags on weekdays and work the weekends.  If you want to be in healthcare I would suggest ARNP or PA and if you do not want patient contact then data management/SQL/EPIC builder on the IT side.  Have you thought about firefighter?  My brother is a firefighter/paramedic and works 24h on and 48h off.  You can workout/hangboard at the station on shift and live a comfortable life.  He has 3 kids so he became a nurse as well and picks up ED shifts for extra income.

Travel nursing is a great option.  

The attraction to pharmacy is that you came out of school at max salary as there was always a shortage but now there's a surplus and the pay has been decreasing.  Another negative factor in the over-saturation is that companies can "abuse" you and if you don't like then 15 people will gladly take your position.

My wife is a pharmacist as well and the best thing we ever did was spend 5 years being cheap in order to pay off our student loans (>300k).  We live off of one salary so that if one of us loses our job due to the market/illness/etc. then will will not lose everything.  Now if we wanted to, we could liquidate everything and be baristas if desired.  There is such a weight off your shoulders by not being beholden to debts.

Best of luck in your journey!

Hey guys. I’m in PA school now. It’s pretty sweet.

Thanks for reminding me of this. Interesting to see what I was thinking of 4 years ago

Fan Ywrote:

I finished med school but dropped out from internship, and what really made me do it was the realization that everyone I was surrounded by either were happy workaholics who had no hobbies, or miserable people because they had to give up their hobbies. I don't know why it took me so long to realize, because I was surrounded by miserable residents from Year 2. Find people locally who have jobs you are considering, and just plainly ask them in person; people are often very honest with their life choices and happy to guide the young. 

Hey that's basically my same story! So many miserable doctors out there. Glad I'm not one of them. Just vanlifing it forever now.