Sport draws used for Trad?

I know that it is a no-no to clip bolt-scarred carabiners to your rope. However, is it unsafe to use them to clip into a cam sling?

As I understand it, a bolt-scarred biner will only shred rope because the rope moves along the sharp surface. Such movement would not happen on a cam sling, right? (As well, I've seen bolt-end biners flip, leaving the scarred end on the dogbone. Is there any danger of dogbones being shredded when this happens?)

I've been using my sport draws as short extensions on my trad gear and haven't had any issues. Have I just been lucky that none of my slings are shredded?

Surely it can't be practical to keep some apline draws for bolts (for the occasional bolt on trad or drag on sport), and the rest designated for gear, right?

now its fine. the rope moving over the sharp biner is the issue. the sling is staionary, therefore no problem.

Why don't you deburr the carabiners?

Maybe I'm not whipping enough sport climbing, but my quick draw carabiners haven't gotten any burrs yet, and I have no issue with using them trad climbing. I do keep an eye out for it, but as long as they're looking good, I'll use them for trad as well. I'm more likely to carry draws on single pitch or straight climbs than on alpine adventures. 

RandyLee wrote:

my quick draw carabiners haven't gotten any burrs yet 

Not all alloys have this problem.

Fix those biners with some sand paper! 

Inspect all your gear and never have to worry about it. 

See myth number one https://www.outdoorresearch.com/blog/article/7-myths-of-climbing-wisdom

I'm not sure what draws you have, but the bigger problem I have run into with my sport draws (Petzl Spirit Express Draws) is that the extension wouldn't do much to isolate the placement from rope motion. The stiff dogbone transfers most of the motion from the rope to the piece. You can still use stiff quickdraws to reduce rope drag, but I find usually I want a longer extension when rope drag is a concern. If you have more flexible dogbones this might be less of a problem.

In the end I've just decided that what I want from my draws in sport and trad is too different to use the same draws. In sport I want short, stiff dogbones because they're easier to clip with. In trad I use alpine draws because I can use them at different lengths to reduce rope drag, and the more flexible slings isolate my placements better.

^^^^^^^  +1

Wouldn't using sport draws for trad, just make them trad draws? One of my sport climbing friends found that sport draws made less the effective had holds than the "trad draws" while flailing his way up a crack climb..

P.S. Are you taking 40 ft whippers onto quick draws to the point where the bolt is actually damaging your biners?

BrokenChairs BrettC wrote:

See myth number one https://www.outdoorresearch.com/blog/article/7-myths-of-climbing-wisdom

Hardly a myth.  Will burrs cut your rope?  Maybe, but probably not.  Will they cause fuzzing and undue wear?  Absolutely!

Recently I was lowering my partner from the top to the base of a route (top-access only).  I was using one of his lockers in the redirect.  I could hear the cutting action on the nylon and watched little bits of nylon fuzz fall from the locker.  Once he was safely at the bottom I swapped out the locker for one of mine.  His showed just some minor burrs from being used on bolt hangers.  

I definitely don't think you need to worry about rough carabiners destroying your cam slings. Though I do think it's nice to use different quickdraws for sport and trad. IMO large carabiners and a thick dogbone are nice for sport climbing whereas for trad it's nice to have ultralight biners and a skinny, less rigid dogbone.

baldclimber wrote:

Hardly a myth.  Will burrs cut your rope?  Maybe, but probably not.  Will they cause fuzzing and undue wear?  Absolutely!

Recently I was lowering my partner from the top to the base of a route (top-access only).  I was using one of his lockers in the redirect.  I could hear the cutting action on the nylon and watched little bits of nylon fuzz fall from the locker.  Once he was safely at the bottom I swapped out the locker for one of mine.  His showed just some minor burrs from being used on bolt hangers.  

I don't disagree with your point.  My reason for posting was the comments in the OP about it being a no no and shredding rope or being concerned about it damaging the cam/dog bone slings.  I think that a lot of people give this topic more concern than is necessary.  Do I think it's dangerous; no (unless as Blake points out the carabiner was used extensively as a fixed draw with dozens of ascents which could very well be the case for a locker that was used for a lot of top roping.)  I don't disagree that it could cause premature wear on a rope in some situations.  In the instance of clipping a cam/wire and the rope running through I don't see it being an issue.  The more compelling argument is the stiff dog bones making the placement more susceptible to walking.  FWIW I don't mix my rope/hanger carabiners on my sport draws because it honestly just bugs me, I'm a little OCD about it. With traditional climbing I use alpine slings almost exclusively for extending gear placements but I don't worry about one being clipped to a bolt, piton, wire, etc it's just too much to try and keep track of it all.  Point is you're not going to die as a result of some burrs on a carabiner. 

RandyLee wrote:

Maybe I'm not whipping enough sport climbing, but my quick draw carabiners haven't gotten any burrs yet

Nice man I wish I could say that all mine have burrs from my inability to not fall.  Keep sending!!

BrokenChairs BrettC wrote:

See myth number one https://www.outdoorresearch.com/blog/article/7-myths-of-climbing-wisdom

http://dmmclimbing.com/knowledge/carabiners-and-potential-rope-damage/
DMM seems to think myth number one isn't a myth, and I'm sort of inclined to agree.

Matthew Stark wrote:

http://dmmclimbing.com/knowledge/carabiners-and-potential-rope-damage/
DMM seems to think myth number one isn't a myth, and I'm sort of inclined to agree.

I've seen that video and the damage to those biners they used for the testing was more indicative of one that was used as a fixed draw for an extended period of time verse catching a few falls or being used on an random bolt or two on a trad/alpine route which is what the myth is in reference too and was addressed in the article: "If your carabiner is going to damage your rope or sling, it will be because it has been used on a fixed draw or anchor for dozens of ascents"

To your original question:

I've been using my sport draws as short extensions on my trad gear and haven't had any issues. Have I just been lucky that none of my slings are shredded?

Surely it can't be practical to keep some apline draws for bolts (for the occasional bolt on trad or drag on sport), and the rest designated for gear, right?

The biners won't cut your dog bones nor do you need to dedicate some alpine draws to be bolt only.  However, I always say do what makes you feel more comfortable it's not like you're putting yourself at risk by having dedicated bolt clipping slings.

BrokenChairs BrettC wrote:

Nice man I wish I could say that all mine have burrs from my inability to not fall.  Keep sending!!

I've been looking for more alpine adventures lately, and I'm trying to get into climbing 5.11 sport but the people I go out with who can work with my very all over the place schedule don't want to climb that hard. I've been getting a lot of mileage in on easy stuff lately, and not enough on climbs I'll fall off of. So it's great, but we all know the higher the number, the more fun you're having!

What David Kerkeslager said.

I'd not worry about the burs/nicks/whatever (I sport climb often, and my biners get lots of nice deep nicks from bolt hangers. I think the rounded eye-bolts /& glue-ins prevent this though). But do make sure to keep the burred/bolt/gear side on the gear, and not the rope.

I use my sport draws for trad cause... sometimes I don't have enough alpine/flexible draws for the routes I wanna do alone. Saves some money I guess. Coming from someone who bought like 12 cams. But what David K. said about flexibleness is very true, but not a show-stopper. I'd recommend using some/as many flexible light quick-draws or even better alpine draws as you can, but supplementing with sport draws if you don't have anything else... ain't gonna kill you probably.

BrokenChairs BrettC wrote:

See myth number one https://www.outdoorresearch.com/blog/article/7-myths-of-climbing-wisdom

Not completely a myth but extremely rare for it to happen. I took a biner and damaged an old rope with it that had burs doing test. It can happen but extremely rare chance it will. Just run your finger over them before you go out to climb and make sure it isn't really sharp and you will be fine.