Do you stick clip? Why or why not?

Russ Keane wrote:

It's cool, do your own thing.   You can also set up top ropes on bouldering problems.   YMMV

The idea of lead climbing is not to fall.  When did sport climbing become an exercise in taking falls all day?  All I see at sport crags is "TAKE" at each bolt, projecting up, stick clipping, etc.  It's not a gym.  There are piles of boulders at the base of the climb because nature put them there.

Good point to ponder. High end sport routes seem almost a different sport than lower end trad - does the "do not fall on lead" even apply. Back in the day, you would never see a bolted route lower than a 9 or 10.  Upon returning to climbing, I was surprised (and grateful) to see lower grade bolted routes on days I do not want to mess with pro.

stick clip everything all the time, it would be so easy to slip off 5 feet up and break an ankle, nothing like 2 months in a boot to ruin a season. I've never once felt judged or ashamed to stick clip a bolt.

befozz wrote:

stick clip everything all the time

A luxury of sport as compared to trad. No judgement, just the reality.

Maybe one of these would let you slot that first piece of gear?

Russ Keane wrote:

"Most (local) sports routes bolted recently have the 1st bolt place with a stick clip in mind."

Yeah, for 5.12 and up.   Give me a break-  If we are stick clipping 5.8's we have really sunk to a new low.

so what about 5.8 projecting climbers?? what about 5.9 climbers who make mistakes? what about when the fall is absolutely atrocious??

Russ Keane wrote:

The idea of lead climbing is not to fall.  When did sport climbing become an exercise in taking falls all day?  

This is an outdated view of the sport. Adventure trad climbing, alpine, ice climbing are all still places that this mentality is required, but to me sport climbing is a place to push physical limits, which means falling, sometimes alot. Sport climbing has been that way for a while now. 

If I offer my stick clip, you turn it down and you go and break your ankle, Im not carrying you out.

Bread Pirate Rahsahbi wrote:

Maybe one of these would let you slot that first piece of gear?

hahaha I wonder how many of you guys have heard of CLIMBIRD

http://www.climb-bird.com/eng/

you HAVE to watch the video, its both hilariously ridiculous but also kinda interesting in that you really could stick clip some gear in lol

Jef Anstey wrote:

hahaha I wonder how many of you guys have heard of CLIMBIRD

http://www.climb-bird.com/eng/

you HAVE to watch the video, its both hilariously ridiculous but also kinda interesting in that you really could stick clip some gear in lol

Is that Aleks Z's invention and site?

What is Cilmbird?

Climbird is climbing assistance device to safe climbing invented to install metal rings just as Carabiner, cam, nut or hook at the target spot where is long way from hands when climber could not set a belayer at near location or you may be in danger to climbing caused by setting so that severe injury or risk of life is attended due to plunge. This is the world's first invention patent product designed to bring it with very light and small size when you climbs a rock wall.

befozz wrote:

This is an outdated view of the sport. Adventure trad climbing, alpine, ice climbing are all still places that this mentality is required, but to me sport climbing is a place to push physical limits, which means falling, sometimes alot. Sport climbing has been that way for a while now. 

Maybe a good comparison of differences between types of skiing. All are forms of skiing (alpine, Nordic, tele) and each requires different gear and applications if the gear. 

Jacob Schutt 1 wrote:

If I offer my stick clip, you turn it down and you go and break your ankle, Im not carrying you out.

Holy crap dude.  You are a serious stick clipper, I guess!   You are more into stick clipping than actual climbing.  Legit climbers support someone's intention to climb the line as clean and pure as possible.   Would you not help Alex Honnold if he had a fall while free soloing?  Weird stance.   By your logic, anyone leading is going over the line.   Top roping is the only safe option.

Russ Keane wrote:

 When did sport climbing become an exercise in taking falls all day?  

Wasn't the phrase "sport climbing" coined to describe that type of climbing.

Mason Stone wrote:

My personal preference, I like the sentiment from a movie, grow stronger, until then I use what I have. If I am maxed out at the first bolt I know it won't get easier beyond. So I calculate for my edge and then push from there. its not a gym as someone upthread said. If I am about to break things because I don't have the skill to make the first or second bolt, I top rope the route or find another route to climb. In the voice of old crusty: Dogging one's way up a route while yelling take the whole way up is not awesomer than top roping a route. 

You're conflating climbing a route cleanly with *learning* a route's sequences in blocks and then putting those blocks together for an eventual redpoint. It's a different style of climbing with different tactics than what you're used to. 

Sure, climb it how ever you like, but you'll feel pretty foolish if your attachment to old-school trad dogma causes you to nurse a broken ankle that puts you out of action for a year.

Jake Jones wrote:

You're wasting your time Marc.  Some people have to break bones to get it.  Probably on something "easy".

I know. I often wonder if people expousing those views ever really climb at their absolute limit.

Mason Stone wrote:

If I am maxed out at the first bolt I know it won't get easier beyond.

Actually, that's not true at all. There are a lot of routes where the portion before the first bolt is the crux. I recall a route where the 11b crux was at around 12' off the deck - and you'd land on your side or inverted among a bunch of blocks - after that, the hardest other moves were a 10a and a 10b. The first bolt was at 15'.

Jake Jones wrote:

A buddy of mine about 6 weeks ago went to the Red.

I started wearing a helmet on sport routes after a couple of trips to RRG/MFRP - had holds break  on 5.7,5.8, 5.10a, 5.10c, 5.11a - friend took a flight from anchors when his foot holds went. Another friend took a fall while clipping 2nd bolt on a 5.7 at NRG - hand hold ripped off the wall on a recently bolted climb, he ended up ~2-3ft off the ground.

I'd rather have a broken ego from stick-clipping than broken ankles, or worse, from an easily preventable fall. 

Sport is supposed to be safe, there is no need for unnecessary risk. For sport I almost always do. Trad obviously not. 

Really wish I had a stick clip this past weekend. The first bolt on jasonbecker.com at Shelf Road is about 20 feet off the deck. Super easy climbing, with a fat ledge two moves shy of the clip (for 5'10). This route has been a goal of mine for the past couple of weeks as I break into 10s.

The moves to the bolt were easy (even easier the second time around), however not two days earlier I was climbing a 5.9 I've done a few times. I was being a little cocky and wound up slipping, forgetting that I hadn't even reached the first clip yet, and took some minor flesh wounds on the way down. Realizing how easy it is to slip on something I know, getting to that first bolt wasn't putting me in the greatest mindset. I'm not climbing for an audience, I'm climbing because I love the puzzle, and I'd really like to continue working on new puzzles.

The girlfriend and I invested in a Trango beta stick yesterday. No more sketchy first bolts for us.

Mason Stone wrote:

Looked at me sheepishly to which I replied hey man, whatever makes you safe. I am not condemning someone for stick clipping, just engaging in the OP's question and the discussion. The question was do you stick clip and why or why not. We don't make the rules for others to follow, you and I have our own, which in some ways makes us more safe and in others puts us at risk. So chide me if you want, my position stands, I know about low cruxes, I just prefer to eyeball a route and either decide I can climb it or walk away. 

Amen man. We need more people like you posting simple views responding to the OP, not yelling at others for their opinions. 

Jake Jones wrote:

Wasn't really referring to you.  But whatever.  Climb long enough and your day will get ruined by someone that took a risk when they didn't need to and got mangled as a result.  At that point you'll have two choices:  A)  Help- which is what any decent person would do or B)  Get pissed off that some dumbass with a big ego ruined your day and others' when it was completely avoidable and probably help anyway and then come back in an internet forum and do exactly what I'm doing now.  

It's a good bet that when you go sport climbing, you'll be sharing the area with other people.  Let's say you go with just your girlfriend whom you happen to outweigh by 60 lbs.  You fall and break your ankle because you didn't stick.  Then what?  Then the people around you have to help.  That's what.

Yeah, I hate when people do anything but top roping around me too man. It really pisses me off when I see people taking unnecessary risks by taking a fall on lead or gear, who the hell do they think they are, they brake their ankle by a bad fall and I have to carry them out.

There is a risk threshold that you engage in that others would otherwise find unnecessary, yet you still take those risks, why?