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Powers Product Spec Sheets Question
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When looking at the Powers Product Spec Sheets, there are a few different values listed as far as the strength of their bolts go. Ultimate Load Capacities and Allowable Load Capacities are both listed with sub values for shear and tension. I know shear is probably more important for climbing hardware, but is the Ultimate or Allowable value more applicable?? I was looking at the column for 2500 psi which is my estimate as to the limestone I work with. Thanks! Spec Sheet for Power Bolt SS and PS |
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From the data sheet (note 2 on page 4): Ultimate load capacities must be reduced by a minimum safety factor of 4.0 or greater to determine allowable working load. Consideration of safety factors of 10 or higher may be necessary depending upon the application such as life safety or overhead. |
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In climbing we use the ultimate load capacities. But hopefully someone who actually knows what they are talking about weighs in soon... |
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Ultimate = Failure strength Allowable = Safe working load Ultimate is of more concern to climbing. Safe working load is a generic property that is dependent on the application and is something an engineer familiar with the project needs to determine. For example, an SWL of 3:1 might be fine for unimportant applications, where as overhead lifting might require 5:1, overhead lifting of a critical lift might require 7:1 and life safety may require 10:1. It all depends on the application, but manufacturers will often put out a generic SWL for their products and it's up to the engineers to adopt or rewrite those values. |
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Thanks guys. Basically the factor is greater for more dangerous situations and it's more of a frame of reference? I.E. ultra dangerous = 10:1, chill stuff = 3:1 |
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Unless you have a good reason to do otherwise, I would suggest the powers 1/2", stainless steel bolt and hanger. Or whatever 20 kN says. *Assuming you are putting up a limestone sport route |
Jonathan Awerbuch wrote: I equip my routes with Wave Bolts for what thats worth. My friend and I were discussing the strength of the newer PS Power Bolt+ in the 3/8 size. I don't want this to turn into another discussion as obviously stainless is the best option, but I wanted to see the spec sheet on the new design with the thin shafted bolt. |
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Bighon Dolomite has a much higher compressive strength than 2500 psi. Close to 10k psi on the low side. |
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It´s worth pointing out that the strengths for industrial applications are for their particular parameters and the tests are different to climbing bolts. Somebody really does need to do the testing using a normal hanger as these often give completely different results. I´ve tested two basically identical bolts from the same material, both from reputable European companies and both with construction certificates and identical strength ratings, due to the difference in the testing one will fail at just over 8kN and the other at 38kN. |
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The new Power Bolt+ seems like a poor choice for climbing applications for a couple of reasons. On page 2 of the spec sheet it shows the 3/8 version having a 1/4" internal bolt diameter which could be prone to fatigue under normal climbing forces. Second, the ultimate values for sheer and pull don't meet UIAA guidelines for bolted anchors. While many developers in the US couldn't care less about UIAA guidelines here is something to think about, the 3/8 PB+ is likely weaker than or at best comparable to a 3/8 red head. The 1/2" diameter bolts look fine though. |
TSpiegelberg wrote: The new 3/8" Power Bolt+ should NOT be used for climbing. Climbing suppliers - and I'm calling out Climbtech and Fixe Hardware and anyone else - should NOT be selling them as climbing bolts. I've told them both this repeatedly. Of course it'd be best to not be selling any non-stainless bolts at all... |
Jason Todd wrote: Thats super surprising! I bet it varies around the state. Over at the Shipyard the internal psi is probably different than the outer 1 1/2 in...Sounds like we should meet in Cody and break some rocks Jason!! |
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Thanks for the good info everyone. It is interesting that they still market and sell bolts that don't meet UIAA standards.... This thread strayed away from my original question of which strength rating to pay attention too, but I got my answer. I was not curious because I was going to purchase and place the newer PS 3/8 Powerbolt+, however curious because I know of routes equipped with these bolts. |
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I would agree with Greg, skip the 3/8" Power Bolt Plus bolts. If you're going to use a 3/8" bolt in hard rock get the Hilti KWIK III wedge bolts in stainless steel. They are really good bolts and they are strong enough in their 3/8" version for use in hard rock. |
Greg Barnes wrote: It looks like Climb Tech might not be selling them anymore. I couldent find any 3/8" Power Bolt Plus bolts on their website. Good on CT if they pulled them off the website. |
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Another reason not to use the new Powers 3/8" Powerbolt+: we can't figure out a way to remove the sleeve and cone on these. They lengthened the spacer and shortened the expansion sleeve, and I can't find a tap long enough to reach that deep in the hole. 1/4" bolt down the center is way too skinny, too. Don't. Use. Them. (Please!) |
Gregger Man wrote: When that 1/4" bolt rusts and binds to the cone I would bet most will snap off when we go to remove them. If any one runs into these, replacement should be considered before it comes to no possible removal options. Has anyone tried drilling through the expansion sleeve and cone? |
20 kN wrote: Yes, talked to Chris Vinson and Climbtech is no longer selling them. I actually checked online before posting and they were still there, but my computer may have cached an old page. |
