Asking for Input, Not Grief

Just to get it started, again, I would like your opinion on a seemingly touchy subject.  I am not much of a boulder and prefer to climb "taller" things.  That being said, I respect the simplicity, social connections, and technical prowess needed for the bouldering community.  I believe there is a great deal of crossover between "climbers" and boulders.  My problem is with mixing up the two categories it gives each group less distinction.  I wonder if REI, with their resources could/should not create a separate domain for bouldering like has been done for Mt. Biking (MTB Project), Skiers (Powder Project), Hikers (Hiking Project), Runners (Trail Run Project)?  For now, let's call it "Boulder Project (BP).  BP would show case the strictly boulder lines and not involve the lines typicly using bolts or gear.  Even though a boulder FA is significant, it IS different from a...say, a two pitch new route FA.  Many of the same skills required, but still way different on many levels.  I believe both communities would benift from this seperate distnction.  What do you think?

I would think it depends on how much demand/market there is for such a site.  Nothing wrong with the idea, but I don't know that a lot of people are craving it, either. Considering you're the first person I've heard ask about it...

Edit: On MP, you can search for boulder problems in a given area under "Best Routes for You."

Yeah, there is a forum spot called "Land of the uber-strong pad people" too.  But somebody can work days putting up 15+ boulder FAs and somebody else can put in the same time to get half way through a new mulipitch.  The two things don't seem to juxtopose well to me.

I think you don't get to choose what others give you and your idea seems pointless to me.

And the word is "boulderER". Usually without the capitalization.

It already exists right here:

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/103989409/bouldering

I am not sure why we would need a completely separate website, we already have a separate section for it. Websites are not free. They are rather expensive actually in that creating a website that doesent look and function like total crap requires a ton of programing which takes time and money to pay someone to do it. Then you have to buy the domain, lease the server space, ect. all for what? Seems like a solution in search of a problem.

The capital "B", Bill, was out of respect.  The lack of proper "ER-ing" out of...I guess igrorence.  My point is/was by seperating the two catigories each group would gain more significant notority, input and distinction.

I don't think a whole new app is necessary. Climbing and bouldering belong in the same app. Lost Wall and Rock Town are a half mile apart geographically but miles apart in what a climber expects and wants. I get it though, I think. I don't boulder. I wanna go up. Up is cool to me. I love up. If I would boulder, however, I'd be MUCH better at up. I KNOW this. It's always been a thing with me. I hate to practice. If I could hit the driving range twice a week I'd be a better golfer. Hate it. I wanna play. If I could practice drum rudiments and drills for an hour twice a week I'd have been a better drummer. Hate it. I wanna play! If I bouldered and pulled hard moves and crashed and hurt a shoulder and got some scrapes and pain down low while making hard moves I KNOW would be less of a wuss about making a hard move two feet over a great placement or bolt. Still hate it. Still, the noob I took to the crag yesterday had been bouldering a lot recently because it's what he had gear for. He killed  on his first time. Led an 8sport, cleaned and rapped and did all kinds of great stuff because he had built up the mental and physical prowess. I still hate to practice. And to ME it's practice because I love up. One guy talking here...

Perhaps we need a TopRopeProject.com as well?  We could discuss different techniques of downclimbing and tension traversing to chains?

Dude, he specifically asked for no grief. 

Buddy and Skye, both with thoughtful and insightful input.  Thanks.  High ball bouldering and free soloing... both require practice, similar skills, and a good head.  Both have a very small minority sub set within our combined communities.  So, setting them aside.  Aid climbers, ice climbers, trad and sport climbers, all other subsets, have more crossover with each other than they have commonalities with boulders, or so I think.   The more "traditional" categories of climbers, ie. aid, ice. sport, and trad. tend to be a two person team, taking significant time way above deck, and have to cope with an adrenaline pump 1/2 way through the event (they need to do the long descent).  This is different from the hard, repetitious, often more social event known as bouldering.  By separating them they both gain more dignity, or so I am thinking now.  School me otherwise.  

Yeah, there is that.  I see it like a venn diagram.  The intersection would be in the descriptions and locations.  Just for giggles, look at MP Utah right now, this date and time, under "whats new" (https://www.mountainproject.com/scripts/WhatsNew.php?what=ALL&mode=&daysold=90&locationId=105708957&filter=).  Look at the line up of new stuff and help me understand why separating the two would not benefit both entities?  Maybe not, just seems easier in my head to break things into more definable boxes in order to better categorize said boxes so as to help folks find stuff faster.  

Ouch on the P.S. there, Nivel! I kid. Love it. This may be the smartest thread on MP to date! 

I think it's a valid question, especially if you think about it from a user-interface perspective.  The current design of the site isn't really amenable for mapping out locations of several boulders in the same area and the problems on them, and using google maps to pin the location isn't accurate enough. Right now, people can only submit pictures of the problem, or upload a topo showing all of the routes.  That being said, I think that bouldering should stay under the same umbrella since there's so much overlap and the same population is generally accessing the same information. 

It would be amazing if routes could be classified as Boulder/Trad/Sport/Alpine/Glacier/Ice.  Right now we only have Trad/Sport/TR. 

I think a more realistic separation of the climbing world would be to differentiate between single pitch sport/bouldering and more tradition forms of climbing, i.e. multipitch, alpine, ice.  If there are two "camps" in the vertical world (and I don't think a nice split like that actually exists) then these seem to be the two. At least in my experience, the majority of people either focus more on one or the other.  

Personally I mostly sport climb, but I identify more with boulderers than I do with trad or alpine climbers.  Some folks like the minutia of figuring out beta, trying routes at their limit and pushing the grades.  Others seem to be more interested in the overall package of climbing a long route, dealing with the objective hazards of weather and route finding, and having an experience that encompasses more than just the movement over stone.  Of course this is totally debunked by many examples of all-arounders, but sometimes stereotypes actually do an okay job of defining people.  

Messy as it is, I think that the MP database should stay essential as it is.  The above mentioned categories seem like a good way to better organize the site and I think it would be an interesting thing to do, although it seems like resorting all of the data would be a difficult or impossible

Maybe what's needed with first is a distinction between indoor-only and outdoor climbers.

I know a boulderer who climbs V7-8 and has been climbing for eight years. Thing is, he's only been outside once (we have three bouldering-only gyms here in PDX), definitely didn't like it, and has never been outside again. And he's not alone - we now have a whole class of people who love climbing, but just don't like climbing on rocks.

Tom Rangitsch wrote:

I think a more realistic separation of the climbing world would be to differentiate between single pitch sport/bouldering and more tradition forms of climbing, i.e. multipitch, alpine, ice.  If there are two "camps" in the vertical world (and I don't think a nice split like that actually exists) then these seem to be the two. At least in my experience, the majority of people either focus more on one or the other.  

Personally I mostly sport climb, but I identify more with boulderers than I do with trad or alpine climbers.  Some folks like the minutia of figuring out beta, trying routes at their limit and pushing the grades.  Others seem to be more interested in the overall package of climbing a long route, dealing with the objective hazards of weather and route finding, and having an experience that encompasses more than just the movement over stone.  Of course this is totally debunked by many examples of all-arounders, but sometimes stereotypes actually do an okay job of defining people.  

Messy as it is, I think that the MP database should stay essential as it is.  The above mentioned categories seem like a good way to better organize the site and I think it would be an interesting thing to do, although it seems like resorting all of the data would be a difficult or impossible

I sport climb, both single pitch and multipitch.  I also trad climb, both single pitch and multipitch.

For me, bouldering about as enjoyable as doing pushups.  I don't like it but I do it when necessary for training.

I don't like bouldering because one of the main things I enjoy about rock climbing is climbing up HIGH, and a few metres off of the ground just doesn't cut it.

Even if I were to solely view myself as a single pitch sport climber, I would still identify more with trad climbers than boulderers.  Which group is more likely to know how to put on a harness properly?  Know how to set up their belay device properly?  Know how to belay properly?  Know how to handle the rope?  Know about anchors? Have extensive experience climbing more than a few metres off of the ground?  Know how to rappell?  

In those regards sport climbers are closer to trad climbers than to boulderers.

always thought with a few noteable exceptions that nameing and claiming FA's on tiny pebbles  was  pointless . and those noteable  exceptions are usually highballs.

Roy Suggett wrote:

Yeah, there is that.  I see it like a venn diagram.  The intersection would be in the descriptions and locations.  Just for giggles, look at MP Utah right now, this date and time, under "whats new" (https://www.mountainproject.com/scripts/WhatsNew.php?what=ALL&mode=&daysold=90&locationId=105708957&filter=).  Look at the line up of new stuff and help me understand why separating the two would not benefit both entities?  Maybe not, just seems easier in my head to break things into more definable boxes in order to better categorize said boxes so as to help folks find stuff faster.  

I don't think the fact that a lot of boulders just got submitted in Utah necessitates a new site. This could be accomplished by adding the "Advanced Search" filters more places on the site, which I do think would be very helpful. 

Hum...I asked to be schooled, and you all did just that.  Thanks.  Perhaps new and better filters.  Perhaps a satellite pic. of the boulder area, laid out in a simple orientation with the most dominant feature as the starting point.  J Tree also has a good idea (https://www.mountainproject.com/v/joshua-tree-national-park/105720495) by placing boulders first in their own catigory.  Hope REI is reading.

It's trad climbing that is the outlier, so perhaps it shoud be evicted from the site? However, if the trad climbers left this site there would be nothing to argue about, so maybe not, after all, isn't that what this site is for?