Skis vs. Splitboard for Technical Climbing
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I read this forum LINK and it had a good discussion of ski vs. splitboard vs. snowshoe. I think I understand the general recommendation but was looking for input to make sure I'm interpreting the recommendation for my specific case. Also, as I'm brand new to the world of AT/tele skis if you could point me to some resources on where to learn a bit more and where best to potentially find a used pair it would be much appreciated. I'm really only interested in technical climbs (ice/mixed) but need a way to skin in/out for the approach. I have little to no interest in ski mountaineering. I'm from CO where I never skied, only resort snowboarded (and only on the days I didn't go rock or ice climbing). However I now live in Houston, TX so I have very limited time in the mountains to pick up skinning much less DH skiing as well. I would be doing all skinning/skiing/splitboarding in a Spantik/G2SM or Scarpa Mt. Blanc boot as that is what I would be using to climb the route. It seems the recommendation in my case would be to get a mid-length AT type ski with Silvretta 500 binding. Because I wouldn't be hitting those sweet powder descents often if ever, I wouldn't be getting the benefit of the splitboard. It seems that the efficiency of skinning in skis would more than offset the improved decent of a splitboard vs skis as I'm just looking to get back to the car/base camp. Thoughts? Thanks |
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If you're already strong on a snowboard I'd look more into a splitboard and using bindings that you can use with mountaineering boots. Ditto on what Kyle said, skiing in a mountaineering boot is WAY different than even the softest ski boot. That being said some of the new skimo boots climb almost as well and are the same weight if not lighter than a Spantik or Mt Blanc. (Procline Carbon 1190g, Spantik 1261g, Mt Blanc 1840g) |
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Since you've already learned to snowboard....buy a splitboard(pay attn. some brands are way heavier than others), mount tech binding toe pieces(dynafit) for the uphills, plate bindings for the downhill...if you can afford them buy the arc'teryx boot, if not a tlt5/tlt6 modified. |
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none of the options people have listed will work (or not work well) with mountaineering boots. regular mountaineering boots won't have dynafit compatible toes. modified ski boots like the TLT5 or TLT6 will not perform well for technical climbing. any ski mountaineer who has ever had to climb a pitch of ice to get up something can verify this. they're passable but the harder the climbing gets the more your footwork will falter. at the outdoor gear expo at snowbird last week i saw a new product that could potentially serve to bridge the gap for mellow skinning to/from alpine climbs. they're not meant for serious, steep downhill travel. simply a more efficient travel method than snowshoes with a more universal attachment than dynafit or silveretta, and a hell of a lot lighter than a splitboard. keep in mind, i haven't tried them. i have no connection whatsoever to the company. i just saw them and got to handle the product a little bit and recognized it immediately as a viable approach method on snow. you get the more efficient approach offered by skinning. you can't lock your heel down and they don't have metal edges. skiing something steep and technical on them would be a horrorshow. they use a generic strap system that isn't specific to snowboard boots, ski boots, or any proprietary system. i think they're still a fairly new company. not quite in the beta testing phase but still somewhat in infancy. it's worth looking into. |
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T.L. Kushner wrote: And now I want a pair! Thanks for the link |
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T.L. Kushner wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkR8SeCpmf0 but then the climb is only ED 5+ M5 :) |
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Kyle Tarry wrote: Goals would be Ham & Eggs (Moose's Tooth, AK) this coming May building to Cassin Ridge on Denali a few years our from that. Training would be in RMNP just cause that is where my current partner lives and I have to travel regardless. Approaches in RMNP are usually boot pack just due to traffic but flotation helps and opens different approaches, and skis can cut down on the infinite march that can be getting back to the car from Longs Peak. With Ham & Eggs, we need to be able to get to and from the route even if we can't land on the Root Canal glacier. Never having been to AK I can't offer more description than what I or anyone else can see in the pictures. I think I'm just looking for improved efficiency over snowshoes but being a total $*#t show on anything more than the most mild decent is a bit worrisome. |
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Nobody buys a splitboard because they are more versatile than skis, people buy a splitbaord because snowboarding is fun and they don't mind the extra fidgeting and less support while skinning in order to be in the backcountry. You have what you call a dilemma. If you want versatility then go skis, but you can already snowboard and learning to ski is a frustrating process that takes time. You're going to spend money on either option, so I wouldn't really put that into the equation because in the end, the option that works best is priceless. So there you go. There's my advice that really doesn't answer your question. |
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From what I've seen and tried over the past few years, if you want to splitboard, it's not always going to be optimal. However, get a setup and use the shit out of it. I've been out with guys and gals who can crush on less than optimal setups. There's good and bad to every combination, buy something now and start dialing it in. You might not nail your AK setup on the first try, but the more time you spend on your gear, the better off you'll be. |
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T.L. Kushner wrote: Those are similar to snowshoes, some come with edges (a must), They'll get you up as fast as snowshoes, skis and splitboards but they're a nighmare to control going down. Like a friend said, they're fine to cross a frozen lake... https://www.skinbased.com/ I used to Alpine snowboard (carving board) and looked at the options out there for approaches, I've got snowshoes and classic cross country skis (Rossi BC 68). I took a few runs down the local hills renting downhill skis and figured that they'd be the easiest way to go instead of splitboards for the areas I plan to go. I've got my TLT5, got them fitted and got a few runs on demo skimo gear. Skis: Versatile, easy to lock your heel for a short descent followed by more climbing, less time before heading down you just need to rip off the skins. Splitboard: More fun going down, takes longer converting from climb to downhill and vice versa, you're screwed if you slow down in deep pow cause you can't herringbone (Duck-Walk) out of a hole or off of flat terrain. |
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I'd look into a very light AT setup. Take a few resort days to become passable as a skier so you dont hurt yourself or a tourist on popular bobsled trails in places like RMNP. I agree with other folks that the classic silvretta approach ski is obsolete at this point. AT gear has gotten very light and very good. In the silvretta heyday, a typical setup might be 1600-2000g / ski, 1000g / binding and then you had your typical mountaineering boot (say Sportiva nepal or Scarpa Inverno (1200-1300g / boot). The setups were mostly only useful for approach, and even then the skinning efficiency and even security (e.g. on a side-hill traverse) is awful. Total weight (w/o skins) = 3800 g per foot Consider that a lightweight AT boot now weighs around 800-1000g per boot (Scarpa Alien, Dynafit PDG, Sportiva Syborg). A lightweight binding is around 150-200g. A lightweight ski is around 800-1100g/ski. note - I'd consider going just bigger than rando-race size for the ski (so maybe 70-75mm waist, 170 length, 1 kg-ish weight). It will be more forgiving than a pure race ski (64 mm waist, 160 length) and give a bit more float on deeper approaches. You could switch to a race ski down the road if you found yourself carrying them over often and weight was truly at a premium. Total weight (w/o skins) = 2000 g per foot A setup that really pushes the weight could be in the 1500 g per foot range. For moderate routes with skiable descents, plan to climb in the ski boots. For harder routes, or rappel descents, plan to carry climbing boots in your pack on the approach and leave your skis at the base. Your total weight on the approach with the latter option will be lower and not on your foot. Furthermore, skinning efficiency, side-hilling and skiing will improve dramatically. |
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I'm a splitboarder. I actually do not enjoy ice climbing or mountaineering for the most part so I mainly just chase good lines. If I have to climb a mountain to get to one...so be it. I think the answer to your question is hugely terrain dependent, especially if you want to splitboard. A bad terrain choice makes a splitboard outing a nightmare instead of fun.
As for the technical aspects of split vs. skis, they are mostly a moot point if you ride in hardboots. As far as tele vs. AT, I would recommend AT. You will probably find it a little easier to learn/control, and you will probably find more options for AT equipment that fits mountaineering boots. However, the most godlike backcountry skiers I have met have definitely all been tele skiers. ;) |
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I personally wouldn't invest in a split or AT setup unless you were going to delve into backcountry/ ski mountaineering. Stick with snowshoes; MSR makes all kinds. |
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Most of my friends who have done routes in the alaska range brought an AT/split set up with it's own boots and then their double boots for the route. You'll be a lot happier getting good ski laps in to acclimatize at 14k than you would slogging up and down the hill with boots. Silvrettas make you a liability actually skiing. So does skiing in the backcountry without years of skiing at the resort under your belt. If you have aspirations of climbing/touring to access climbs don't bother with a soft boot splitboard set up. I've been snowboarding since 93 and splitboarding from 09 on. I purchased TLT6 boots in 2014, but couldn't get into using them because it was just too stiff medial/laterally for me to ride technical terrain confidently, I liked my broken in malamutes. I hated climbing even cruiser snow slogs in soft boots though, technical terrain was out of the question. This year I did the phantom bindings pivot cuff kit on the TLT6, cut slits in the lower shell below the pivot points and drilled holes in the cuff as shown on their site: http://www.phantomsnow.com/shop/parts-accessories/boot-mod-kit |
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Jason Killgore wrote: Agree with Jason's comments, but be aware that lightweight boots like the Alien and PDG have thin shells and thin liners that don't provide much insulation. That's fine for rando racing but if you're going to be standing around on belay ledges in cold weather you might prefer a slightly heavier boot with a warmer liner, like the Dynafit TLT5/6. They'll also give you more control on the downhills. |
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Nick Drake wrote: So you ride that Phantom setup? A TLT6 boot, AT tech binding on the split board for uphill, disk binding for downhill? |
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I don't know what options are out there for mounting mountaineering boots to skis, but I think for splitboards you can possibly use something like those voile hardboot splitboard bindings. I saw an old guy riding the resort with a setup like that last year. I think they cinch onto the front and back bails or something. But I can't remember how you go in touring mode. You could see how normal splitboard bindings fit with your boots, if all you really need it for is the approach and an easy descent, it might be fine. |
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Mike Slavens wrote: I just used the phantom kit for the boots. I have a dynafit tlt6 boot, dynafit tech binding for the up, voile wire heel risers, voile canted pucks, and spark r&d dyno plate bindings for the down. i went with the spark binding because of price partially. More because the phantom binding interface needs to be cleaned of packed snow/ice. With the pnw cascade concrete that can be a pita. The spark binding I can just slam in place with no cleaning most of the time. |
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Nick Drake wrote: Pictures? |
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Nick Drake wrote: Good to know. I'm looking at the hardboot setup w/ Spark dynos and was going to use the off-season to get fit for TLTs, proclines and some of the LS line. I have wide, hight volume feet so it could be interesting. |