Fell 20' on top rope

So a "three count", "20-foot-fall" turns out to be 6-10 feet. Given that the route is 70' high and you were only part way up on a TR you can account for that much with rope stretch alone from the 100+ feet of rope that were out. Add in the normal amount of slack in a TR system (a couple feet), unless you had asked your belayer to short rope you, and it's really easy to imagine you falling 10 feet, hitting a ledge and breaking an ankle. This is why moderate terrain can sometimes be more dangerous than overhanging terrain. And, yes, people break ankles tripping over a slipper or falling off a 6" curb, so it didn't have to be a huge impact.

Sorry to hear about your injury. Hope it heals quickly. 

If you were in a freefall for 3 seconds.. you'd travel 144 feet, hitting your hot, and inattentive belayer at 65 mph.  Not a knock on the OP - anytime you're in the air it feels more epic than it probably was.

This thread is still going? Clearly, we need to use some advanced modeling to figure out what really happened.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12283-013-0128-9

aikibujin wrote:

I don't have an Ohm to play around with, so here's an interesting question for you all with an Ohm: since it can catch a lead fall at the first bolt, presumably the thing is built pretty tough. What would happen if you hang the Ohm from a TR anchor and run the rope through it? Will the device lock up so the belayer can't take up rope, or will it act like "wrap the rope around the metal bar twice" for toproping outdoors?

Personal experience as a lightweight belayer...

While OHM on the first draw can catch a fall on the first draw (e.i. on the OHM itself), it feels only slightly better than a catch on a regular quickdraw on the first bolt, it would be similar to having an extra biner on the first anchor, instead of a single quickdraw biner. But having a rope redirected from belayer to the ohm on the first draw, and then the regular toprope setup makes a huge difference.

I wouldn't put it on the anchor. It would have no mechanical advantage over having the rope going over 3 biners at the master point (or two beefy locking biners at the master point), 

John Barritt wrote:

Pretty sure it does, it should stretch and retract when unloaded every fall. Mine does anyway. The only way to take the stretch out is a taught belay, which defeats the whole purpose of a dynamic rope. JB

Well, the answer is "it depends."

If it's a NEW rope the first time you use it there's considerable stretch the first time it catches a fall. As a rope gets used more its elasticity changes. So it's always wise, IMO, to just stretch the heck out of a brand new rope on a safe tope rope setup before using it in a critical situation. Like I said way up in this thread I recently watched a buddy fall on a toprope with less than a foot of slack at J-tree and still "fall" a good 15 or 20 feet. It was a gentle, bungie-like fall, but if he'd hit a ledge in the first 10 or so feet it would have been trouble. 

Whether that was a factor in this situation is unclear. 

John Conzone wrote:

And climb slowly next time =)

I think there's enough that's been said in this thread about the rope and belay situation and that's important to analyze.  But I think there's a very important aspect to this conversation that's been overlooked.  Climbing is dangerous.  Especially outside.  Climber and possibly belayer clearly did not appreciate the dangers of this section of the climb.  Don't climb above a ledge with fall potential at your limit.  That's the mistake here.  Don't fall if you do.  There's two mistakes.  At the end of the day, the climber overestimated their ability and didn't account for the risks of the route. A belayer isn't a substitute for the judgment or responsibility of the climber.  You can harp on belay technique and try to throw your belayer under the bus as much as you want. But from the comments of the climber, I feel like a lack of respect for the dangers of climbing outside and the potential consequences were contributing factors to this accident.  A belayer shouldn't be expected to mitigate every risk a climber takes.   

ALEXAOUTDOOR Alexa smit wrote:

And climb slowly next time =)

Lol........belay faster. I love these threads...... ;)

Old lady H wrote:

At least my not yet caffeenaded incompertent nooberness can spell incompetent.

This from someone who said "...since we drug  my incompetence into this..."

The correct word is "dragged"; "drug" is not the past participle of the verb "drag"

You drug someone when you administer a drug.

Marc801 C wrote:

This from someone who said "...since we drug  my incompetence into this..."

The correct word is "dragged"; "drug" is not the past participle of the verb "drag"

You drug someone when you administer a drug.

Funny! Touche.

AndrewArroz wrote:

Well, the answer is "it depends."

If it's a NEW rope the first time you use it there's considerable stretch the first time it catches a fall. As a rope gets used more its elasticity changes. So it's always wise, IMO, to just stretch the heck out of a brand new rope on a safe tope rope setup before using it in a critical situation. Like I said way up in this thread I recently watched a buddy fall on a toprope with less than a foot of slack at J-tree and still "fall" a good 15 or 20 feet. It was a gentle, bungie-like fall, but if he'd hit a ledge in the first 10 or so feet it would have been trouble. 

Whether that was a factor in this situation is unclear. 

Did I miss something? Was it a new rope? I remember my first new dynamic rope like it was yesterday. The year was 1978, it was a 11mm green and yellow 70m edelrid dry rope my mom bought me for my birtday. We were climbing on green line when I got it. But what do I know..........tell me more about ropes...... ;)

PS Could you check my gramaticals Marc?

Anonymous wrote:

Touché.

Yeah, I didn't put the accent symbol over the "e." I'm sorry. 

Kyle Tarry wrote:

The solution to this problem isn't another shiny device.  It's a proper, attentive belay, attentive climbing, and an awareness of how ropes work.

Everybody wants a panacea for every possible climbing situation, all the better if it's a special device that "fixes" the problem.  In reality, old-fashioned techniques and safe practices are all that is required here.

(Note that I think the Ohm is a great idea for the intended use, which is a light belayer and a heavier leader).

Kyle, I entirely agree with you. 

At 220, he is going to outweigh quite a lot of climbers, and, that is why I suggested he consider owning one.

John Barritt wrote:

PS Could you check my gramaticals Marc?

Ooo, I think you need a doctor's license to do that, and I'd rather not since I don't know where they've been.

Marc801 C wrote:

This from someone who said "...since we drug  my incompetence into this..."

The correct word is "dragged"; "drug" is not the past participle of the verb "drag"

You drug someone when you administer a drug.

I agree that "dragged" is the right word, but not because "drug" is not the past participle.  The sentence calls for the simple past tense of "drag," not the past participle.  (But as "drag" is a regular verb, they're the same.)

John Barritt wrote:

Did I miss something? Was it a new rope? I remember my first new dynamic rope like it was yesterday. The year was 1978, it was a 11mm green and yellow 70m edelrid dry rope my mom bought me for my birtday. We were climbing on green line when I got it. But what do I know..........tell me more about ropes...... ;)

PS Could you check my gramaticals Marc?

I wasn't questioning your knowledge, John. I was basing my comment on the OP's statement that,  "I had brought 9.7 mm BluWater dynmaic rope cause she was gonna lead a sport route but for whatever reason decided to top rope David's...Now in gym usually I fall a few feet and bang, stop dead. I realize that's static rope probably10+ mm... Now I know 9.7 mm is not ideal for top rope, but its well within specs and I can't figure out why I fell so far, like 15-20 feet."

He seems like he doesn't have a lot of experience with climbing ropes if he thinks a 9.7 Bluewater rope is something unusual to be using and if he thinks gym ropes are "static." So I'm hypothesizing that this might have been a new or little-used rope he brought. 

AndrewArroz wrote:

I wasn't questioning your knowledge, John. 

It's cool, my kids do it all the time. Never question me on the internet again though........just a fun thread,  Sorry somebody had to get hurt.

I'm really amazed someone as smart as Marc doesn't know the difference between neuticals and gramaticals. ;)

John Barritt wrote:

It's cool, my kids do it all the time. Never question me on the internet again though........just a fun thread,  Sorry somebody had to get hurt.

I'm really amazed someone as smart as Marc doesn't know the difference between neuticals and gramaticals. ;)

Oh, come on. A neutical procedure would be a bit harsh, doncha think??

Bad belay. A lot of people are looking for you to share blame but you had a few months experience and were out with a veteran. She should have known enough to keep you tighter in light of experience and weight difference. You don't have to tell mp about her shitty inattentive belay but I wouldn't hesitate to tell local climbers if I was you. She needs a badge if you needed bandages.