Crack Training in the gym

Hey everyone,

Debatable which forum this belongs in as it is sort of a "Training" question, but I put it here because it's more about logistics/comfort than actual energy processes/conditioning, though it may spill into that.  Anyways...

I like crack climbing.  I'd like to be better at it, and in particular stronger/better endurance.  Have a trip to Squamish planned for this summer and would like to get up to the Creek next season.  I get on as many  outdoor cracks as I can, but not as much as I'd like or what it would take to develop the conditioning/technique for my goals.  Based on the bulk of info on the net (yes, I Googled!) the most ideal approach would be a crack machine, but sadly I live in a 2 bedroom condo with a child and there is no room for one, so my best option is to do laps on the cracks at the gym...

But they suck!!  They are highly textured.  Even in my comfy TC Pros, I can only really tolerate 1 or 2 laps in a session before my feet are killing me and start to blister and bruise.  I use Ocun crack gloves, which actually makes hands not hurt too bad, but feet can only take so much abuse.  To contrast, I've never had a problem with pain from outdoor cracks (including granite with crystals in it) and usually don't feel the need to tape outdoors.

So...any suggestions to help me get more training volume in without destroying my feet?

If you're training hand/fist size cracks, they can usually be climbed as easily in approach or hiking shoes as they can in climbing shoes. That could save your feet some pain, but isn't as applicable to finger cracks.

Oh...good idea!  One is a perfect #1-2 hand crack, the other is a 3-4 off-hands to fist.  There is a finger crack, but I usually give up on foot jamming past a certain point on it.

Have you seen pinch blocks at the gym? Basically they are blocks of wood with an eyelet on them so you can clip weights to them and pinch them. Try making some jam blocks, do repeaters(hangboard type routine 7 on 3 off) with them, make various widths, and you will get better crack strength. If you pay attention using jam blocks, it will increase your endurance and technique, trust me. 

it never becomes less painful and the technique on getting up 10s-11s in IC is quite minimal (as long as the pain doesnt bother you) so just climb a lot, stay positive and embrace the pain.

I'm gonna second Donovan's suggestion. Assuming  you have a basic technique dialed I think you're better served developing pinch strength than running countless laps on a gym crack. Just my opinion though. 

Mike Mellenthin wrote:

This may be a dumb question -- how tight are your TC pros? You want your toes to be completely flat. Anything less and it will hurt a lot.

In general though crack climbing hurts, although less so over time and especially not on splitter hand cracks. I'd wait it out a little bit. Are you climbing splitters outside? Are your gym climbs splitters? There is a difference between smearing the outside of a low angle crack and weighting a cammed foot in a vertical splitter. The latter will eventually become less painful provided you aren't wearing totally improper footwear. Focus on getting your knee vertical and camming your foot in vs. trying to wedge your foot in a pod.

FWIW too, I'd ditch the hand jammies for tape in the gym. Hand jammies are good, but they make your hand a pretty different size and they make fists way too easy and prevent the development of good technique. YMMV though.

Toes are flat, they're sized for cracks.  Like I said, pretty negligible pain outdoors.  I've even climbed in my toes-curled performance-fit Pinks outdoors, and they were fine.  Most of the cracks flare downwards (narrow as you get higher), so it can be a little insecure, but in general the problem seems to be the unnatural amounts of friction.

I agree with you in theory, and have never used the gloves outside, but these cracks shred tape.  Here's a scar I have from the wide crack (wearing tape):

I've found that crack climbing and sport climbing really aren't that different, in that you need finger strength, endurance, and power—the techniques are obviously different and that will just come by climbing a lot. Climbing cracks in the gym is heinous and miserable. Hang board, do circuits, boulder, get in a lot of time on the wall—I can almost guarantee that will make you a better crack climber than bashing your feet for twenty minutes on a fake crack. 

Yeah, they're Walltopia.  Otherwise great walls, but sucky for cracks.

Evan: I've heard that sustained hand/fist climbing is most like overhanging enduro jug hauls.  Even in finger cracks, you're still mostly activating big muscles (fingers cam, but whole hand flexes and arm lifts), so how would building crimp strength (hangboarding) help?

Toes are straight.  Like I said: TC Pros, sized for cracks/all day comfort.

BCarver wrote:

I see that you live in Chicago. It seems like you are talking about the cracks at First Ascent. If so, those cracks are worthless. They are so rough that they sawed through a pair of my mythos in less than 2 sessions. The handcrack is a good width, but it zig zags so much it makes it hard to learn good technique. Although the fist crack gets vertical and slightly more constricted at the top, the width is about a half inch bigger than my fist. That is not the size crack I would seek out my first season at the creek. I've heard that one of the suburb gyms has a collection of more realistic cracks. It might be worth checking that out if you haven't already. The only other option I can think of is going to Indian Creek, Pebble Beach, or Muscle Beach at the Red. 

I also picked up some useful advice from Steph Davis on her blog. She recommends when possible to keep your toes pointed downward when you slot them in the crack (think ballerina standing on toes) I found it to be some much more comfortable.  Most climbers/videos will tell you to insert your toes directly into the crack and torque your foot by turning your knee in line with the crack.

My first trip to the creek was a frustrating mess. Have fun!!

Haha yep, it's FA.  I have heard that Vertical Endeavors (the suburban gym you mentioned) does have some nice cracks, but it's a bit of a trek.  I've been meaning to do it, though.  Good beta about the feet; Steph definitely knows her stuff in that area!

I've learned to climb cracks primarily indoors (Planet Granite Sunnyvale as an earlier poster had mentioned).  It's maybe not optimal, but it definitely can provide results.  Yosemite stills throws me for some loops, but running laps on indoor cracks made me feel like a superhero in Indian Creek.

While a lot of people here are advocating for TC Pros I'm really happy with Moccasyms.  They are super comfy when sized for toes flat.  I like the slipper design for cracks because there are no uneven points like laces or velcro that can create pressure points while jamming.

Another idea is to think about exactly how you are doing your footjams.  As you cam your foot into a good handcrack remember to drop your ankle, it makes the position more natural and less painful.  You might also be exerting too much force into your footjams; just like you can overgrip handholds you can expend more energy than you need to while jamming with both hands and feet.  Maybe you don't need to work the jam in quite so intensely and that could save you from fatigue and pain as well.

Glad to see this topic. My problem at my gym is that their cracks are poured concrete or whatever walls used to be built from in the 1990s. Great texture for feet but the insides of the cracks are filled with razor sharp little irregularities and end up not really working so well for hand jams. I've practiced on Walltopia cracks at a different gym nearby and found them to be superior for practicing the different hand and finger techniques. 

Ted, are you down climbing these cracks? If you aren't, you should start. Thank me later. 

Ted Pinson wrote:

Ted,

I climb at VE. Their cracks are modelled after serenity crack at Yosemite, and several of the classics on Devil's Tower. I'm an inexperienced crack climber myself, but it's an area I'm looking to improve. I haven't done any true jamming there, so I can't comment on how badly they'll tear you up, but my general impression is that they have rougher texture than the walls. (I'mean guessing that's partly due to the fact that not many people actually climb the cracks. )

BCarver wrote:

I see that you live in Chicago. It seems like you are talking about the cracks at First Ascent. If so, those cracks are worthless. They are so rough that they sawed through a pair of my mythos in less than 2 sessions.

I've been lapping them for a while, as it's all I have (no car, so no burbs.) It's good to hear that the damage I'm seeing to my Mythos laces area isn't because I suck _too_ much.

Ted, I'm not getting pain in my feet until I'm on toe tips near the top of the narrow crack. Is the blistering from the shoes slipping against your skin? Even in Mythos on the offhands crack, my feet aren't buried enough such that skin contacts the walls.

Ted Pinson wrote:

Yeah, they're Walltopia.  Otherwise great walls, but sucky for cracks.

Evan: I've heard that sustained hand/fist climbing is most like overhanging enduro jug hauls.  Even in finger cracks, you're still mostly activating big muscles (fingers cam, but whole hand flexes and arm lifts), so how would building crimp strength (hangboarding) help?

I have a fair amount of experience on splitter cracks (about ten years) and feel that for enduro thin hand cracks and down, forearm endurance is the most important factor after learning how to jam. The longer you can hang out on a finger stack, ring lock or finger jam with poor or no feet to place gear, the better. Forearm endurance is also extremely important for lay backing. Therefore, I've always found sustained sport climbing to be the best conditioner for the creek and other enduro crack areas, at my level. I wouldn't personally compare hand cracks or fist cracks to steep jug hauls since these sizes of cracks have great feet that can allow you to recover.

After having my baby I had was short on time and trained by just bouldering, hang boarding and some (very little) sport climbing. I onsighted some alpine 5.10+ finger cracks in the Tetons my next climbing season and 5.11 in the creek, which is good for me. I didn't think the boulder and hang board training would relate to cracks, but it did. I think strength training can help in many ways, but if you're looking for something specific, then It makes sense to me that hangboarding and campus training will improve your ability to bear down and move between insecure locks, especially if the feet are crap, as well as fight fatigue in any jam where you're engaging your fingers (i.e. Finger stacks and ring locks).

So, given my recent experience of training and returning to crack climbing, I would second the advice to sport climb and strength train in lieu of climbing indoor cracks (unless you still need to learn some specific jamming techniques).

Have fun on your trip!

NegativeK wrote:

I've been lapping them for a while, as it's all I have (no car, so no burbs.) It's good to hear that the damage I'm seeing to my Mythos laces area isn't because I suck _too_ much.

Ted, I'm not getting pain in my feet until I'm on toe tips near the top of the narrow crack. Is the blistering from the shoes slipping against your skin? Even in Mythos on the offhands crack, my feet aren't buried enough such that skin contacts the walls.

Hmm, that's possible.  I hadn't used my TCs in a while, as I generally save them for outdoor climbing, so it's also possible they may have shrunk/been a bit stiff.  Hadn't considered shoe slipping...in which case the shoe would be too big?

havent read all the responses so i apologize if someone already said this:

avoid over stuffing your foot into the crack. focus on only jamming in enough to get full contact from rubber rand on shoe, avoid going in all the way to laces/top of foot.

feels less secure at first but i beleive the rubber adds comfort and more stickiness

I'm perhaps in the rare camp of trying both the cracks at PG Sunnyvale and FA in Chicago... The ones in Sunnyvale are definitely more fun, but I definitely think running laps on the ones at FA are worthwhile. 

It is hard for me to visualize what could be happening in the FA cracks that would be giving you blisters on your feet... The high friction is nice to keep your foot stuck when you jam and reduces unexpected foot slippage, which is the main cause of foot pain/blisters in my experience. 

My two speculations are...

1) overtorque-ing your foot in the crack: With the high friction you shouldn't really need to put much effort into the torque in the foot to get your whole weight on it.

2) Not being careful with how you set your foot jams: Maybe you are "shoving it in" a bit too fast and not taking time to properly set the jam before weighing it? Kinda like people get sloppy with their footwork on face climbing someone can get sloppy with their foot jams with crack climbing. This could contribute to slipping in the crack or otherwise uneven distribution of pressure leading to bruising.

Ben Horowitz wrote:

I'm perhaps in the rare camp of trying both the cracks at PG Sunnyvale and FA in Chicago... The ones in Sunnyvale are definitely more fun, but I definitely think running laps on the ones at FA are worthwhile. 

It is hard for me to visualize what could be happening in the FA cracks that would be giving you blisters on your feet... The high friction is nice to keep your foot stuck when you jam and reduces unexpected foot slippage, which is the main cause of foot pain/blisters in my experience. 

My two speculations are...

1) overtorque-ing your foot in the crack: With the high friction you shouldn't really need to put much effort into the torque in the foot to get your whole weight on it.

2) Not being careful with how you set your foot jams: Maybe you are "shoving it in" a bit too fast and not taking time to properly set the jam before weighing it? Kinda like people get sloppy with their footwork on face climbing someone can get sloppy with their foot jams with crack climbing. This could contribute to slipping in the crack or otherwise uneven distribution of pressure leading to bruising.

Definitely possible.  One of the big breakthroughs I had in crack climbing was when I learned to rely on my feet rather than my hands to support my weight, so I may have become a little heavy-handed (err footed?) in my jamming technique, especially when placing gear.  I should also mention that I've been leading the cracks for practice (clipping the draws, not gear obviously), which might be having a psychological effect causing me to overjam.  I'm thinking I should do some TR practice pushing the limits of my jams so that I'm only using the minimal torque/effort.  I feel like I've gotten fairly solid at this with my hands, but haven't worked as much with my feet because they haven't been a problem outdoors.