Removing the bail biner on wet dream(CCC)?

I've decided to start projecting wet dream and every time I get up to the crux it's a giant pain in the ass to clip the bolt due to the locking biner that has rusted shut.

Clipping your draw onto the bail biner itself puts your draw in a spot where it'll be loaded in an awkward way in a fall. The alternative is to clip your draw underneath the bail biner which is very difficult to do as you're pumping out.

I went up there with a pair of pliers a couple weeks ago and I still couldn't get the gate to open. Does anyone have any advice on how to remove that thing?

I don't own any tools for sawing but if someone provided some best practice instructions and let me borrow a tool I'd be happy to go up there and remove it myself.

perhaps a better solution would be to just buy a new hanger and replace the hanger?

PS: If the community feels that the bail biner should stay there I wont touch it...

Im not sure if the biner qualifies under the JCOS climbing management rules, but you may want to contact the fixed hardware committee first just to be safe:

jeffcofhrc@gmail.com

http://jeffco.us/open-space/activities/climbing/

You should be able to cut it with a cheap Home Depot hack saw ($5)

That said I would probably spray the screw with Pblaster let it sit a day and then try to open it with two pairs of vice grips or stout pliers.

Damn, that thing is still there? Full disclosure, I clipped the hanger in front of it and whipped without incident. I'm sure many others have as well. Hopefully you can get it removed, but don't let it keep you off the route if you can't. Another reason to not leave crap on a route!

if it's a wedge bolt you could easily replace the hanger, but make sure you match the metals!

curt86iroc wrote:

Im not sure if the biner qualifies under the JCOS climbing management rules, but you may want to contact the fixed hardware committee first just to be safe:

jeffcofhrc@gmail.com

http://jeffco.us/open-space/activities/climbing/

There is no reason to do this.

You can use a hack saw to cut the spine. Thanks for taking care of it. 

I'll echo Parker's response.  The biner is a bail biner and has nothing to do with JCOS fixed hardware management policies.  One thing you can try is to clip in directly to the biner and get some long handled vise grips.  If that doesn't work hack that thing off!  Thanks for doing this, I was fumbling with that biner last night.

just trying to avoid a potential conflict, thats all.   (ranger witnesses someone cutting a piece of hardware and asks WTF is going on...)

thanks for all the responses.

I think I will go with the hacksaw method. Any idea how long it'll take to cut that thing apart?

Any tips on the process? My game plan is to rappel down to the locker, clip my pas into the locker in order to put weight on it and keep it stiff for when I'm sawing. If it breaks violently I'll still be backed up on rappel. Also, I'll wear a bandana over my mouth and nose to keep particles out.

That's just the obvious method that popped up in my head; if someone has a better/safer way to get the job done please let me know.

PS: I did email JCOS under curt86iroc's advice... even if it's obvious that the bail biner doesn't belong there, it doesn't hurt to take 1 minute to send an email.

Make sure you have a blade for cutting metal (I know it sounds obvious).

Battery operated dremel tool with cutting disc. Just don't knick your rope! 

 If it's an aluminum biner, it won't take long to cut through it with a metal blade, as long as you're getting some kind of leverage on it. Steel would be another matter.

I don't know how steep the climb is, but if it's low-angle you might be able to wedge something behind it so that when you weight the biner it'll stay away from the wall. Are you going to use a prussik to go hands-free on rappel?

Also consider bringing an etrier to give you more options for leverage if there aren't good spots to rest your feet.

I wouldn't worry about breathing in metal particles, I don't wear a mask when machining aluminum. A saw won't be throwing a ton of material around.

ollieon wrote:

 If it's an aluminum biner, it won't take long to cut through it with a metal blade, as long as you're getting some kind of leverage on it. Steel would be another matter.

I don't know how steep the climb is, but if it's low-angle you might be able to wedge something behind it so that when you weight the biner it'll stay away from the wall. Are you going to use a prussik to go hands-free on rappel?

Also consider bringing an etrier to give you more options for leverage if there aren't good spots to rest your feet.

I wouldn't worry about breathing in metal particles, I don't wear a mask when machining aluminum. A saw won't be throwing a ton of material around.

The bolt is pretty much on the bulge of a small roof, so definitely not low angle; any other idea of how to accomplish the same goal without wedging something behind the biner?

I've got a mammut smart alpine which locks up by itself so no need for a prussik. Etrier is a good idea! I don't own one but I'll just make one out of a sling.

Thanks for the advice!

Wait, before you go in guns blasting, how about soaking the thread with some liquid wrench and just let it sit for a few hours? I was planning on trying to take it off the next time I get on the route, but it would be cool if you can get it off before me.

A sawzall is the way to go ! It will take about 5 seconds. I have one you can use. 

I work in steel fabrication, so I'll offer some thoughts.

If it's aluminum, bolt cutters will pop it off easily. If you can borrow some (you could borrow mine, but I'm in Loveland), that would be a very quick solution.

Otherwise a junior hacksaw should be fine (you could borrow that too). I personally wouldn't wear glasses or a mask, but you do what you feel necessary. If you can get outward force on the biner by running a sling (or cord, shoe lace, wire, string, etc) through it, and pulling to gain tension and get the section you intend to cut away from everything that you don't want to cut, that would be best. It will also stabilize it for sawing. A metal saw will go through aluminum quickly once you can get into a good stable position. I think you could do it in 30 seconds if the biner was in a vice on a work bench, just to give you an idea.

Mathias wrote:

I work in steel fabrication, so I'll offer some thoughts.

If it's aluminum, bolt cutters will pop it off easily. If you can borrow some (you could borrow mine, but I'm in Loveland), that would be a very quick solution.

Otherwise a junior hacksaw should be fine (you could borrow that too). I personally wouldn't wear glasses or a mask, but you do what you feel necessary. If you can get outward force on the biner by running a sling (or cord, shoe lace, wire, string, etc) through it, and pulling to gain tension and get the section you intend to cut away from everything that you don't want to cut, that would be best. It will also stabilize it for sawing. A metal saw will go through aluminum quickly once you can get into a good stable position. I think you could do it in 30 seconds if the biner was in a vice on a work bench, just to give you an idea.

I can't remember if it was aluminum or steel. I just ordered https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00002X22M/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 so hopefully that'll cut through whatever metal is on there. Thanks for the rest of the info!

A sawzall is the way to go ! It will take about 5 seconds. I have one you can use. 

thanks! if I have trouble cutting through it with the saw I'll hit you up for that

Wait, before you go in guns blasting, how about soaking the thread with some liquid wrench and just let it sit for a few hours? I was planning on trying to take it off the next time I get on the route, but it would be cool if you can get it off before me.

The main reason I'm hesitant to do that is in case someone else wants to climb it with the liquid on the biner. I don't want to risk getting a chemical I don't know anything about on someone else's gear. That would require me to be sitting at the route waiting for the liquid to do it's job which I can't necessarily commit to. Furthermore, when I tried getting the lock to twist with pliers, I noticed that the locking sleeve was dented so I'm unsure if it can even be unlocked anymore... I think it makes sense to just go for the sure thing with the saw.

I probably wont be able to get to this until next week anyways so if you get there before me feel free to give it a shot.

The saw you ordered looks like it'll do just fine for either. And I also see your concerns with using any sort of penetrating liquids.

A thermal lance would work.... but you might catch your rope and harness on fire... ;)  LMFAO

Say,  If you soak it in penetrating oil, then clip a webbing loop to it.  You stand in the loop and put different pressure on it, that might get the threads to work.  Get the wrench going on it then.  That has worked for me before.  Take the pocket saw up too, just in case though.  Don't get that stuff on your rope.  Good luck.

Steve

Another option take a breaker bar or long stick. Put the stick through the biner orientate the biner on the hanger(even better brace it against the bolt) so it will not twist then use the bar to twist the biner until it opens. If it is aluminum it should not take much force to break the biner in this way.

Mathias definitely has it right. The hardest part will be getting the saw started on a (relatively) floppy carabiner with a smooth surface. Weighting your PAS or etrier clipped to the carabiner might stabilize it enough. I can't think of any other way to stabilize it.

You could also bring something to nick the metal so that the saw teeth have something to bite into.

Still, not cutting at all would be the best option. When you say you used pliers, did you bring one of these? It's possible if you attach your PAS to weight the biner and really crank on it with one it might open.

http://www.irwin.com/uploads/products/large/the-original%E2%84%A2-curved-jaw-locking-pliers-with-wire-cutter-276.jpg