Using "fifi" attachment to clean anchor

Yes, it is safe in many cases.

But that's not what is normally called a fifi.   Back in the day "French Free" was a style where you climbed as far as you could and then rested on gear but didn't weight the rope.  A metal "fifi hook" was attached to your harness by a runner, and you just hooked one of the biners on the draw and sagged.  

These days a fifi is considered to be a long runner girth-hitched to your harness and a biner on the other end.   Often you have two fifi's, one on each side, so you can clip into the anchor bolts independently.  This is nicer/safer than having a single connection when you get to the anchor and realize you can't push a bight through; you have to untie.  And because of their longer length (once you've threaded and tied-in again) it's easier to pull up and get your weight on the rope so you can easily unclip your fifi's and the draws in the anchor.

Sure, seems fine.  You are still lowering off rings, though, and relying on your be layer to keep you safe.  Unless the climb is severely overhanging, I almost always prefer to keep my fate in my own hands and rappel after cleaning.  

Go in direct via whatever redundant, comfy method you prefer.

Pull up a bight and tie it off securely to the anchor or your harness so as to not drop the rope. 

Untie, pass the end through, and tie a stopper knot.

Untie the bight on the opposite side, pull until both ends are on the ground.

Rap (with an extension/friction hitch backup).

Yes, I have indeed used the 2 runner/2 biner method on anchors with rings/chains and agree that it is the most foolproof way to clean. However, I am planning to head to an area this summer (Rumney, NH) that has pigtails at the top of many routes and I have not used these before. From what I can see, there is only enough room to get one biner through each bolt behind each of the two pigtails. So if you envision this: 

1) Leader climbs, set up TR anchor on bolts behind pigtails

2) Second TR's, cleans, and gets to the anchors, where does he attach? He can't go direct to the bolts because the TR anchor is there. He can't go to the pigtails with a biner because he is going to pull up slack and thread them with the rope before he calls for a take and cleans the anchor/lowers.

In this scenario, I'm picturing a "fifi" between belay loop and master point seems like the best alternative unless I am missing something (?)

http://www.climbrumney.com/2016/06/19/rca-how-to-pigtail-demonstration/

Yes Phillip, have watched that video several times and I am familiar with the general use of setting the anchor, threading the rope, etc. But the video does not show how to go direct to anchor to clean and I maintain that it looks like there is only room for one biner behind the pigtail, which prompted my question.

There are plenty of safe ways of doing this all depending on what the anchors look like.  For me, instead of using a 3rd draw, I clip the two draws (from the anchor) directly into my belay loop.  It's a shorter leash and could be annoying to deal with, but the two separate points of anchoring feels kinda nice. 

Should call it something else since that's not a Fifi. Whatever you use, don't use a Fifi hook: https://blackdiamondequipment.com/en_US/big-wall-climbing/fifi-hook-BD6200650000ALL1.html

Clipping in short with a draw (or two) is common, no problems, I would always use two draws though and go one into each bolt. Especially if one of the anchor bolts or biners decides to fail while you're clipped to it!

Greg Barnes wrote:

Should call it something else since that's not a Fifi. Whatever you use, don't use a Fifi hook: https://blackdiamondequipment.com/en_US/big-wall-climbing/fifi-hook-BD6200650000ALL1.html

Clipping in short with a draw (or two) is common, no problems, I would always use two draws though and go one into each bolt. Especially if one of the anchor bolts or biners decides to fail while you're clipped to it!

Ken Graf wrote:

Yes, I have indeed used the 2 runner/2 biner method on anchors with rings/chains and agree that it is the most foolproof way to clean. However, I am planning to head to an area this summer (Rumney, NH) that has pigtails at the top of many routes and I have not used these before. From what I can see, there is only enough room to get one biner through each bolt behind each of the two pigtails. So if you envision this: 

1) Leader climbs, set up TR anchor on bolts behind pigtails

2) Second TR's, cleans, and gets to the anchors, where does he attach? He can't go direct to the bolts because the TR anchor is there. He can't go to the pigtails with a biner because he is going to pull up slack and thread them with the rope before he calls for a take and cleans the anchor/lowers.

In this scenario, I'm picturing a "fifi" between belay loop and master point seems like the best alternative unless I am missing something (?)

Ok, let's abondon the "fifi" nomenclature and refer to the method in the article as a "second tier anchor attachment" (where a first tier would be going direct to a fixed piece).

Crux of question is above; is this "second tier anchor attachment" the best method considering the one biner per bolt limitations outlined in the quoted text? 

Philip Magistro wrote:

http://www.climbrumney.com/2016/06/19/rca-how-to-pigtail-demonstration/

You don´t bother to clip the anchor or anything else to "clean" it, you just hang the rope in the pigtail. It´s as easy as clipping a draw (with a little practice). Otherwise just clip straight into the pigtail if you need to hang.

Ken Graf wrote:

Yes Phillip, have watched that video several times and I am familiar with the general use of setting the anchor, threading the rope, etc. But the video does not show how to go direct to anchor to clean and I maintain that it looks like there is only room for one biner behind the pigtail, which prompted my question.

Why would you go direct to the anchor to clean?  The whole purpose of a pigtail is so that you don't have to go in direct to clean.  if you are cleaning, all you do is ask for a bit of slack, drop the rope through the pigtail, ask for a take, remove your draws, and lower.  I can't think of any reason you would ever need to go in direct with a pigtail anchor.

The AAC just released this video to go along with the article:

narrator= j long?

OK, thanks all. That thought crossed my mind too (just pull up slack and go right to pigtail). 

I guess I was thinking that clipping to the masterpoint/anchor could eliminate the hazard of even a short fall for my second when he pulls up the slack to thread the pigtail. 

I think too much...lol

And thank you Derek, that video is perfect!

BigB wrote:

narrator= j long?

Yep, sure is.

Greg Barnes wrote:

Should call it something else since that's not a Fifi. Whatever you use, don't use a Fifi hook: https://blackdiamondequipment.com/en_US/big-wall-climbing/fifi-hook-BD6200650000ALL1.html

Clipping in short with a draw (or two) is common, no problems, I would always use two draws though and go one into each bolt. Especially if one of the anchor bolts or biners decides to fail while you're clipped to it!

I do that as well.  I always carry two standard length slings with biners tripled and use them. I like having the choice of tripled, doubled or standard length at the anchor.  I definitely don't like the Pass or whatever they call it between my legs.

I read the title and thought you literally meant a Fifi hook - which sounded like one of the worst ways to clean anchors.