Hands free during rappel

RockinOut wrote:Being white means you lack the ability to climb?

Actually, he said the problem was with swinging......implying white men can't swing.

Not sure which is the bigger insult to people of color, but carry on......JB

John Barritt wrote: Actually, he said the problem was with swinging......implying white men can't swing. Not sure which is the bigger insult to people of color, but carry on......JB

IT'S A JOKE! ABOUT . . . . . . RHYTHM ! , white men have no Rhythm

John Barritt wrote:Wouldn't it just be easier (and safer) to bring a fiend? ;)

Ha! . A Rope Gun

John Barritt wrote:Wouldn't it just be easier (and safer) to bring a fiend? ;)

My friends never seem to be available when I want to go project... typically on weekdays. And I don't mind climbing alone. It lets me go at my own pace, do whatever volume I want, and quit early if my fingers get tweaked or whatever.

Once I get the route dialed and I can do it on rope-solo TR, I'll get a friend to catch me for RP attempts.

So... I do bring a friend. In fact, a whole rack of them. (Bah-dum-dum)

Thanks for all the helpful replies in the thread.... I think I'll just use a grigri and let go. The only things that suck about rapping on a grigri are (1) you need two hands to rap (so you can't use your non-brake to push off, grab stuff, etc), and (2) rapping on a grigri isn't very smooth... for me at least.

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I want to try rope-soloing from the ground up. I have done this before with a grigri and with a soloist (Rock Exotica). But here's what I don't get: Suppose I have the first bolt clipped with a draw and the rope is through it. So my rope goes like this: tied to the ground, up through the draw, clipped to my grigri.

Question: How do I get my body up to the first bolt?

The only idea I have is this: pull on the anchor-side of the rope (either by hand or with a jumar) and yard myself up to the bolt. Then daisy in to the draw and take out the slack through the grigri. Rinse and repeat.

Is that what most people do?

Autoblock, kliemheist, prussik...........

John RB wrote:I'm sure this has been covered ad nauseum, but... I was rapping down a very overhanging sport route the other day to put draws on it. And I had to swing like crazy to get to the rock so I could clip the rap line in. I was using an ATC and wrapping 3 winds around my right leg before letting go to use 2 hands. This sucked balls: *I'm white, so the coordination of keeping my swing going while wrapping the rope around my leg was very challenging *The wraps of rope around my leg meant I had to keep my right leg up: if I dropped it, the rope would unwind and I would start to descend *Sometimes I had to hang for a while and after a few times my leg would go numb from the tight rope around my thigh Soo... Looking for a better method. Ideas are (1) Auto-block, (2) Grigri 2, and... I'm out of ideas. Is it safe to rap on a grigri and just let go?

If you're rapping in from the top and not already using a Grigri then my preference would be to extend my rap device away from my harness on a PAS or tied off sling and then backing it up with an autobloc tied to my belay loop.

John RB wrote:Thanks for all the helpful replies in the thread.... I think I'll just use a grigri and let go. The only things that suck about rapping on a grigri are (1) you need two hands to rap (so you can't use your non-brake to push off, grab stuff, etc), and (2) rapping on a grigri isn't very smooth... for me at least. ---- I want to try rope-soloing from the ground up. I have done this before with a grigri and with a soloist (Rock Exotica). But here's what I don't get: Suppose I have the first bolt clipped with a draw and the rope is through it. So my rope goes like this: tied to the ground, up through the draw, clipped to my grigri. Question: How do I get my body up to the first bolt?

Put a prusik sling/Tibloc/ascender on the rope 2 ft above the grigri. Run the brake strand of the rope from the grigri through a biner on the prusik et al. Clip a 4 ft sling to the biner also. Stand up in sling while pulling DOWN on the rope coming from the biner. Something like a 3:1 hoist effect.

sometimes I use the shunt for rappel

You could look into the Mammut Smart. A GriGri is technically ";assisted,"; not auto-locking, while a Smart is actually EDIT: NOT auto-locking and has no moving parts. Another big plus is that it raps one handed and almost identically to an ATC in methodology. If your going to be swinging on anything wth no hands on the rope, I'd probably still have an auto-block back up, but I've gone hands-free on my Smart before and never seen any slip. It also works well with narrower ropes which is a nice plus.

The Smart does (or at least did at one point) come as a single strand device, so make sure you get the double if that's what you need. I got my smart (single) for $15, so that's a big plus! The only downside ";jerkier"; than other devices.

Hope this helps!

Jesse D.I. wrote:You could look into the Mammut Smart. A Grigri is technically ";;assisted";; not auto-locking, while a Smart is actually auto-locking and has no moving parts.

Uh, no. If anything, the grigri is more likely to lock up unattended than the smart. And the smart won't lock up on a single strand rap.

John RB wrote:I'm sure this has been covered ad nauseum, but... I was rapping down a very overhanging sport route the other day to put draws on it. And I had to swing like crazy to get to the rock so I could clip the rap line in. I was using an ATC and wrapping 3 winds around my right leg before letting go to use 2 hands.

Why not a prusik knot around both ropes (tied to your harness). you can even use a nylon sling to do the prusik knot. if you are going to swing hard, wrap the ropes more. After the rope passes your atc. do a 8 knot just as back up.

Jason4Too wrote:If you're rapping in from the top and not already using a Grigri then my preference would be to extend my rap device away from my harness on a PAS or tied off sling and then backing it up with an autobloc tied to my belay loop.

Grigri and stick clip. Go ground up. Much easier and less sketch. If you come to a bolt you don't trust at all, you may be hosed.

eli poss wrote: Uh, no. If anything, the grigri is more likely to lock up unattended than the smart. And the smart won't lock up on a single strand rap.

I'm not arguing against the GriGri, because though it is technically assisted, in reality, we all know it will lock. I was simply offering an alternative and the Smart has been good to me. I've only ever used it single strand and I've tested it with my life. It locked. Now, with a heavier climber (like myself) and my very narrow rope, it locks on a fall, but may slip slightly, but for ropes of average diameter (like my other rope) I've never seen it slip.

Jesse D.I. wrote:A GriGri is technically "assisted," not auto-locking, while a Smart is actually auto-locking and has no moving parts.

Rubbish, the Grigri is certified as "manual assisted braking" (the test is it must lock up with no belayer) and the Smart is certified simply as a manual braking device.
As the Smart requires two components to function at all (the body and a karabiner) and they move relative to each other in order to brake clearly it has "moving parts".

Julius Grisette wrote:Grigri and stick clip. Go ground up. Much easier and less sketch.

This is what I want to do!

But I don't understand how I should do it... can someone explain? I stick clip the bolt above me while self-belaying on a grigri. Ok, then how do I get my body up to the bolt above me?

Someone posted a 3-to-1 hauling system... is that really how??

Jim Titt wrote: Rubbish, the Grigri is certified as "manual assisted braking" (the test is it must lock up with no belayer) and the Smart is certified simply as a manual braking device. As the Smart requires two components to function at all (the body and a karabiner) and they move relative to each other in order to brake clearly it has "moving parts".

I didn't mean to start an argument. The GriGri is WITHOUT A DOUBT classified as assisted. On the other hand, Smart, I've seen both ways. I purchased my Smart several years ago and it was advertised (not by Mammut) as auto-locking. In light of this discussion, I've gone to Mammut's site to read their description of the device and it does NOT ever claim that it is auto-locking. My apologies for the misinformation.

Regardless, my intention was not to say one was superior, I was simply suggesting it might be worth "looking in to." I chimed in only because the OP noted that the GriGri takes two hands to rap. The Smart does not, thus, in that regard, it's superior. I apologize for the "moving parts" confusion. My point was again, to compare the use of the Smart to that of the GriGri. The camming action of the GriGri is why it requires two hands; it isn't a simple friction device like an ATC. The Smart itself has no moving parts. Yes, the carabiner does play a crucial role in its effectiveness, more so than other devices. It's camming action can be controlled with one hand.

Ultimately, both can lock up. I've seen people hang hands-free on each. Because neither is guaranteed as auto-locking, I would reiterate that I would use a back-up for either.

Hope this clears the air. Again, sorry for the miscommunication.

John Wilder wrote:If you've clipped the bolt above you, the rope goes from the ground up through the bolts and down to your grigri. You're on top rope. So, you can either grab a hold and pull in slack on the grigri if the wall isn't steep, or you can use an ascender and jug up to the next bolt. Since you already have a grigri on the line, you only need one with a foot strap. Stand up, pull out slack, slide up ascender, repeat. .

Thanks for this!

Ok, so once you get your body up to the bolt, what next? Go in direct with a daisy? Then feed slack through the grigri, and stickclip the next bolt?

I guess that means if the bolt you're on directly fails just before you clip the next bolt above you, you could take a big fall.