Yosemite half dome for the first time

Joseph,

I think the short of what everyone is trying to tell you is, Yosemite is rad and hard. You are 17 and full of energy and ideas, like we all were. Before you make the big trip to Yosemite do some smaller trips to some of the other areas people have mentioned. Get REALLY comfortable and solid on 5.10 trad and aid climbing, like dozens or hundreds of pitches. Then take the big trip out to Yosemite and enjoy every minute of it.

I was one of 6 parties starting up The Nose on one particular day last Fall and 5 of them bailed before getting to the El Cap Tower (12 of 28 pitches). Bailing is fine, but it would really suck to have your big trip to Yosemite turn into a sad story of not being good enough or having enough of whatever people need to have to succeed on a big wall.

Enjoy the process of training and getting ready for it, then get out West and do it. Love all of it. Getting to the top of a big wall is incredible, it's a relief, it's a fantastic realization of your goals and all of the work it took to get there. If you short the process you'll short yourself. Have fun!

Hey Joseph,

You're an Indiana boy so you probably have been to Chicago and know the Sears Tower, right?

Its ~1500 vertical feet or about the same size as Washington Column in the Valley.

Here is a photo (not mine) of a ledge on pitch 15. The arrow points to Washington Column (~Sears Tower), that shows you the scale of things on HD. When you get close to the summit there is nearly 5000 feet of air between you and the Valley floor. That is not an exaggeration as the summit is ~9000' and the valley floor ~4000 feet:

So, the real point of all of this old guy hazing and teasing and doubting you is to plant a question in your mind. If after all of this there is a voice inside you that says "screw those guys, I'm gonna climb that thing..." well, then you just might because wanting to do it so bad you won't listen to anyone is part of getting up these things. If the voice says "*whimper whimper* they are probably right" well then you aren't ready and got some work to do.

You gotta want it.

King Tut wrote: When you get close to the summit there is nearly 5000 feet of air between you and the Valley floor. That is not an exaggeration

i understand how exposed it is, and i am going to get much more .10 multipitch climbing in before i ever attempt it. But, what i have experienced so far is mentally, anything over 100 feet feels the same, truthfully in my mind i think i'm screwed if i fall 100 or 10000 feet so whats the difference, actually i like being more than one pitch up because then you cant deck off of fall (except on a ledge)

joseph sakel wrote: i understand how exposed it is, and i am going to get much more .10 multipitch climbing in before i ever attempt it. But, what i have experienced so far is mentally, anything over 100 feet feels the same, truthfully in my mind i think i'm screwed if i fall 100 or 10000 feet so whats the difference, actually i like being more than one pitch up because then you cant deck off of fall (except on a ledge)

Absolutely right my young friend. Auger in from 30' is the same as 3000'....But, the real point is how far from home you get ie the sense of commitment and difficulty of retreat. One scenario is lower off your last piece, the other is a dangerous epic retreat in a snow storm from 16 pitches up or feeling just a little bit small 3 days into a route when your partner takes a whip and is concussed. Its about how to handle such much more complex situations.

But I like your spunk, Padawan. If you can stomach some interwebs hazing you may have some grit which is a useful thing to have big wallin'.

All this condescension may be difficult to understand atm, I am willing to bet in a few years it will make more sense.

Check out SF of Washington Column and The Prow, both excellent first walls to shake out aiding and hauling logistics.

joseph sakel wrote: i understand how exposed it is, and i am going to get much more .10 multipitch climbing in before i ever attempt it. But, what i have experienced so far is mentally, anything over 100 feet feels the same,

No it doesn't. Not even close. I know guys who had good heads on multipitch at places like Tahquitz who lost their bottle once they got on something steep and tall like WFLT. Everyone is different.

Having said that, what tut is saying is that Half Dome sits at the head of the Valley far above everything else, so the Valley floor is way, way below you. It's a nice setting when the sun is going down and all the lights and campfires start up far down below you. I don't think the exposure will be that big of a deal if you get some longer, steeper climbs in. For example, Royal Arches and the Nutcracker are moderate length, but neither gives you that out there feeling since they're not particularly steep or exposed.

Bottom line, still go. You'll get on some nice climbs. You'll have fun and, you'll need more than a week of prep, but maybe you'll bag the NW Face if all goes well.

Years ago some friends of mine were getting ready for their first trip to the valley with the Nose as a goal. They ran into the late Mugs Stump at IME and asked him what would be good routes around SLC to get on to get ready for their first wall. Mugs told them:

"You're smart guys, you'll figure it out. Just go, get to the Valley and get on it, do it now."

It took them a couple tries, but they got it done.

This climbing thing is supposed to be an adventure-go have one.

Also-I think Half Dome is much nicer to climb on in the fall-from my experience anyways.

a.l. wrote:Years ago some friends of mine were getting ready for their first trip to the valley with the Nose as a goal. They ran into the late Mugs Stump at IME and asked him what would be good routes around SLC to get on to get ready for their first wall. Mugs told them: "You're smart guys, you'll figure it out. Just go, get to the Valley and get on it, do it now." It took them a couple tries, but they got it done. This climbing thing is supposed to be an adventure-go have one. Also-I think Half Dome is much nicer to climb on in the fall-from my experience anyways.

Bullshit I knew Mugs!
And he knew the high caliber of the climbing your friends had cut their teeth on!

This kid is a flat lander who has not been off the ground ,
really off the ground ~ 3 pitches does not count.

a.I ( don't take this the wrong way but)
You have not been following along closely enough.
Indiana, Kentucky & Main,
please don't suggest that, -that- is the same as having ~ the Wasatch,
The Cotton Wood Canyons, Logan Canyon and the Lone Peak Cirque in their backyards.

a.l. wrote: This climbing thing is supposed to be an adventure-go have one. Also-I think Half Dome is much nicer to climb on in the fall-from my experience anyways.

I am not in the habit of telling 17yo's with 5.8s on their tick list to go have an adventure wth could go wrong....citing my former acquaintances that died in preventable climbing accidents either...RIP Mugs who I met once.

And in the fall you have to hump water to the base too. Just sayin'...

Once one is an Adult then you can both give and receive any kind of advice, and on the receiving end your own good judgment must still substitute. In this case, the advice of the Adults in the Room should prevail.

Who here didn't get there ass kicked first time to the Valley ? I bet nobody, go ahead learn something and try to be safe.

King Tut wrote: I am not in the habit of telling 17yo's with 5.8s on their tick list to go have an adventure wth could go wrong....citing my former acquaintances that died in preventable climbing accidents either...RIP Mugs who I met once. And in the fall you have to hump water to the base too. Just sayin'... Once one is an Adult then you can both give and receive any kind of advice, and on the receiving end your own good judgment must still substitute. In this case, the advice of the Adults in the Room should prevail.

If they fail, they fail-many do on their first wall-it's not the end of the world. Maybe they'll go and get the snail eye and never make it off the ground. Or fly up that route like birds, who knows? I'm sure that Mugs was chuckling inside, knowing that my friends very likely would get spanked, at least first try, and he would have been right.

Some of the best, most experienced climbers that I've ever met died on adventures that went wrong. Many great adventures have happened and are happening right now without the advice the so called "adults in the room" -I hope that I never become so dull and jaded as to be thought of in those terms. It's all for fun anyway and, if common sense had always prevailed, our collections of climbing books would make for some mighty tedious reading.

And, by the way, that "hump" to the base of Half Dome doesn't have any devils clubs, skunk cabbage or alder swimming so it doesn't even count as an approach.

Out of the night that covers me,
Black as the pit from pole to pole,
I thank whatever gods may be
For my unconquerable soul.

In the fell clutch of circumstance
I have not winced nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeonings of chance
My head is bloody, but unbowed.

Beyond this place of wrath and tears
Looms but the Horror of the shade,
And yet the menace of the years
Finds and shall find me unafraid.

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate,
I am the captain of my soul.

William Ernest Henley

Sure bro. Just think a little deeper next time when you give a 17 yo advice.

When he is 18, and doesn't need his parent's permission to go climbing, he can go climbing with you.

ps. Dang. You know, I missed out on those Devil's Club good times. Silly me.

Sure bro. Just think a little deeper next time when you give a 17 yo advice. When he is 18, and doesn't need his parent's permission to go climbing, he can go climbing with you. a.I . . . . . . ? Would you give your sisters seventeen year old son the same blind advice? This is so not about what the great literature says about adventure . . . If you check the style of climbing actually practiced here on the east coast The very short height of the places that Joe, has been I think you would moderate your recommendation to

"Go For It",  

I'm so far from being an adult in the room! 

This has to do with what modern climbers today do here in the small rock hell of the eastern hills.

I had taken this down but now I'll put it back -Take a few years and a few road trips 1st.

Wyoming- Devils tower, then South Dakota ~ Rushmore & the needles. 

Then another trip but get into Fremont Canyon the Winds or the Tetons or both on different trips 

Vedauwoo (Wyoming is a crucible) Fremont Canyon - Devils Tower -some sport climbing @ Sinks.... 

The climbs of Rocky Mountain National Park ~ Hallets, The Petite Grepon, Longs...the Diamond. 

I'm amazed that I have to put that out there but . .,. ,

Having a few heads up trips under ones belt 1st, 

makes the pilgrimage to Yosemite a more more worthwhile.

 "Fail to plan?, Plan to fail"-JBridwell

john strand wrote:Who here didn't get there ass kicked first time to the Valley ? I bet nobody, go ahead learn something and try to be safe.

Shit, I got my ass kicked on the 5.6 Chimney to start the RA.

"And this is a 'Chimney'...and this is how you climb it. Your turn."

Of course, that was ~40 years ago.

Who here didn't get there ass kicked first time to the Valley ? I bet nobody, go ahead learn something and try to be safe, . 

And cross-posting from the thread (where the OP may suffering from PTSD- )

How Risk Tollerance is developed

https://www.mountainproject.com/v/how-risk-tolerance-develops/112497518__3#a_112510268 

John strand said. . . .(59 mins ago) """ I'm giving the bS factor on this thread a 10 I just love analysis by some who think they know"""

 I think that we all have our limits as to how much internet mentoring we can stand before we just say , let the Darwin principal sort it out. . . . YOSEMITE YOSEMITE YOSEMITE YOUSEEME YOSEMITE YOSEMITE YOSEMITE,! Joe: !!? I'm a very direct person, sometimes.

 I certainly never called YOU a fool! Infact the reason that I and two or three others are taking the time here is because we, ( I ) was you ! KING' Tutt' for chrssake!, have you googled who is giving you advice ! He is a maestro of the vertical and has been for decades! The Perfect Valley Granite, PVG, ( like YGD ) was once referred to as the 'final Exam' These old phrases were handed down from experience. 

They have layered meanings. There is no substitute for Yosemite!. . . ( TNSY ) Your level of fun in the 'Big Ditch' will be forever linked to how your 1st visit goes. (Unless you build the frame work. Getting past those 1st experiences) Many of us moved , gave up all other life to live out our Yosemite dreams you speak like one of us, - move into the right frame of mind ' Failure breeds doubt, success builds confidence. Difficulty, a number, has nothing to do With the incredible effect that the calling of the walls has on a climbers soul. 

Your 1st pilgrimage to the Valley will enlighten you. ( you will want to build the skills to waltz not grovel ) I'll say it again, we are trying to be 'virtual' mentors, take all and any advice as well meaning That is the spirit that it given in. Again ! KING' Tutt' for chrssake! ( have you googled Serenty Crack /Sons of Yesterday !?)

 ( It is Maybe the best 3/4 day free climbing outing, on the planet!, if that is your thing ) You need to know who is giving you advice ! He is a Maestro of the vertical ! and has been for decades! ((The same must be said about John Strand ! )) The walls go well with youth ! your resilience is already apparent! That is why the change In the advice, starting from testing you here you made it clear that you have the calling. You need to check out who you are when you're run out 20ft on the sharp end, 500 feet up. More milage will serve you better than Youthful enthusiasm. Both will help you succeed . every failure that doesn't kill/maim you will help you in the journey - Be like arrows in your quiver of resolve, the tools to achieve.be 

Michael Schneider wrote: a.I . . . . . . ? Would you give your sisters seventeen year old son the same blind advice? If you check the style of climbing actually practiced here on the east coast The very short height of the places that Joseph has been I think you would moderate your recommendation " to go for it" I'm so far from being an adult in the room! ,

first off, just caus someone is 17 doesn't make them a fool, i just haven't had very much experience with big walls, ie. why i came here to ask dumb questions:). also, to go back to my tick list, just because someone puts low grades on a tick list doesn't mean that they cant do .10s or .11s. ive sent many of .10s and redpointed 3 .11s. (i know, not a lot, u dont have to tell me) just havent updated. and yes, i probably will go to the valley and get my ass handed to me, but isnt that the point of placing gear? lets get logical..... lead falls happen, and when they do, the gear that u placed, intended to take falls, will catch you..... if not then u screwed up really bad and darwinism will continue to function just like it always has in the past.

joseph sakel wrote: first off, just caus someone is 17 doesn't make them a fool, i just haven't had very much experience with big walls, ie. why i came here to ask dumb questions:). also, to go back to my tick list, just because someone puts low grades on a tick list doesn't mean that they cant do .10s or .11s. ive sent many of .10s and redpointed 3 .11s. (i know, not a lot, u dont have to tell me) just havent updated. and yes, i probably will go to the valley and get my ass handed to me, but isnt that the point of placing gear? lets get logical..... lead falls happen, and when they do, the gear that u placed, intended to take falls, will catch you..... if not then u screwed up really bad and darwinism will continue to function just like it always has in the past.

No worries Joseph, and no one assumes that you are a fool.

We just assume you are a 17yo, and that counts both for and against you as you will learn in time (sorry, plain truth).

Come out to Yose as soon as you can, start on the easy classics and take it one step at a time. We all did the same, fortunately for me I lived within a few hours of the Valley. Coming from the East you just need some mileage on the harder grades to get ready etc...tincture of time and experience.

You will look back on this thread someday and see the disconnect between Snake Dike and a real Wall, and laugh happily at the youth you once were.

King Tut wrote: You will look back on this thread someday and see the disconnect between Snake Dike and a real Wall, and laugh happily at the youth you once were.

I am starting to see already:) "experience is a cruel but honest teacher" thanks Tut!

Bachar and Kauk did OK in the Valley around age 17----Astroman

john strand wrote:Bachar and Kauk did OK in the Valley around age 17----Astroman

Absolutely, and the sky is the limit for any young climber after extended time spent living in the Valley like Ron and Bachar had by the time they did Astroman. Unfortunately, that is hard to do unless you work there these days.

Some, depending on their natural climbing style, will adapt quickly, others like my old friend Chris find it very humbling despite being 5.14 climbers when they first experience Yosemite.

I did alright on Astroman the first day I walked into the valley (in 100 degree summer heat). Adam Ondra sent the hardest valley route on his first trip (and he's not the only euro who crushed w/o prior experience in the valley)... So, whatever. The mystique of the valley is way overblown.