To say something or not to someone about to take she sharp end for the first time
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I have a friend who is pretty set on leading soon, and I don't think they are ready for it... |
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It's a judgement call for both of you. |
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Let's talk worst case. Would you rather have your friend have an accident, or have them think you think they're incompetent? |
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JSaarela wrote:Let's talk worst case. Would you rather have your friend have an accident, or have them think you think they're incompetent? I know which I'd choose, whether I was in you or your friend's place. Most gyms offer lead classes, maybe suggest one to them. Then all they have to learn is basic anchor building and they can make the next step to outdoor sport when ready.This is the ice forum, so a gym isn't gonna be super useful. Good thought, though. OP, it's a thoughtful, and tough, question. I'm a mom, so it's even tougher, because I really do have to respect my son making his own decisions. That said, he is my climbing partner, and, that means to speak up if something is actually wrong, and dangerous. |
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I apologize if this comes off as "preachy" I am just direct. |
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Why do you think your friend is not ready for the sharp end? A discussion of the specifics might lead to better advice. |
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JSaarela wrote:Let's talk worst case. Would you rather have your friend have an accident, or have them think you think they're incompetent? I know which I'd choose, whether I was in you or your friend's place. Most gyms offer lead classes, maybe suggest one to them. Then all they have to learn is basic anchor building and they can make the next step to outdoor sport when ready. EDIT: after being told this is the ice forum, I see I should be a bit more observant haha. Best of luck!Hey, or take the picks to the gym, eh? :-) |
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If they are your partner I think it is part of your job to help keep them safe, either with a your belay-plate or with your advice. Take the word of someone who started leading ice way too early: I wish my partner would have told me not to. It would have been humbling in the moment but good in the long run. It's not as if I've ever fallen but I do wish I would've had the sense in the past not to lead and, considering I tend to be over-confident in my abilities, my partner would've had the sense to tell me I wasn't ready. I've been ice climbing three seasons now and I still don't think leading is probably a very smart idea on my part. |
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Shepido wrote:I have a friend who is pretty set on leading soon, and I don't think they are ready for it... I am not sure what to do. On one hand I could express my concerns and try to dissuade them, on the other people are free to do what they wish, and I am afraid that my talk will fall on deaf ears and maybe if nothing else upset what confidence they do have. Surely I am not the first person to be in this situation, so I am sure some of you have been in this same position before. I'm curious what action you took, if any.Don't say shit if: They look solid, climb fast, can speak full sentences at the belay, protect often. Say WTF are you doing if: They flail, climb slow as f,ck, are outta breath at the belay and/or grunt and whine like a boulderer when leading, protect down low but run it out up high. You know when someone's not ready. If you gotta ask us on MP then ask.. are you buthurt they have a better lead head than you? |
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If they do any of these things on TR or while following, it suggests they aren't ready to lead: get themselves out of balance, frantic, or desperate; have to make hurry-up swings; move upwards on bad sticks; lose footing while swinging; pump out or WORST OF ALL fall unexpectedly. |
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Will Gadd posted this essay not too long ago about some important lessons he's learned when it comes to leading ice, and some of the mistakes he frequently sees as the sport becomes more popular. He provides some frank commentary that I think pertains to the OP's question, and makes some points that all ice climbers of all abilities should always keep in mind. |
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The biggest issue I have is them moving up on shaky tool placements, and sometimes not sufficiently staggering their tool placements. |
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Deffinately say something. Help him find a training course |
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I led on my second day out. This idea of being ready is absurd. |
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Shepido wrote:I am dealing with someone whom due to who they are has a hair trigger sensitivity towards being told they can't do something. A simple critique may spiral wildly out of control into a huge argument about this same issue in general and how it relates to work, life, etc.Lets not assume gender. Let's assume its a girlfriend |
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not a girlfriend, actually, but yes a woman. |
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Put her on the sharp end. A few screws in and she'll gain a new respect for the effort required to lead nice. She might bail or she might finish the route. If she's a grown up woman, let her do it. |
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If she's hell bent on doing it, how can you help her make sure it's a successful, and reasonably safe, experience? |
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I was in the Ice Park last month and watched in a horror, how one by one these people would come and lead up this low angle ramp with horrible technique - bad feet, shaky tools, really whacking at convex parts of these sketchy onion-shelly bulges (and placing gear on them). Lucky for all around that day, they all somehow made it up without dying or falling (low angle helps). Just think about how many people go through their lives thinking they're good or adequate without knowing how bad they are? Probably a lot, and just make it through by sheer luck. |
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I've been in a somewhat similar situation with a female friend and I don't think there are any right answers. I know that I came pretty close to falling on lead a few times when starting out and have gotten more cautious and learned to give myself a larger margin of safety, but you also can't protect someone else from everything. |
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"I am dealing with someone whom due to who they are has a hair trigger sensitivity towards being told they can't do something. A simple critique may spiral wildly out of control into a huge argument about this same issue in general and how it relates to work, life, etc." |