Petzl Nomics vs. Grivel Machine 3.0?

Haven't climbed on the Machine 3.0 but Grivel Tech Machines are great and I prefer them to the Nomics. I like the grip, the pommel spike, and the picks better on the tech machines.

Mark Ra wrote:Haven't climbed on the Machine 3.0 but Grivel Tech Machines are great and I prefer them to the Nomics. I like the grip, the pommel spike, and the picks better on the tech machines.

What size hand would you say you have? I wear a size Medium in most outdoor research gloves,.. I'm concerned with handle sizes as well,...don't want something I feel I'm going to struggle with getting a good grip and wrapping my hand around.

Jason, I would pick up some Carbon Tech Machines and try them out. If you don't like them, you could likely sell them for near retail on here. If you are interested in mixed climbing, the non-carbon version may be better. I just LOVE how the Carbon Tech Machines climb ice!

JasonSH wrote: I see. I have size Medium Alpine Alabie gloves (medium hands) and I'm slightly concerned with, what I've read, as to be a slightly larger handle area on the Grivels? My hand seems near perfect on the Vipers I have but I'm not a fan of the weight of them nor the shaft angle.

You'll probably be golden for either the 3.0 or Tech Machine then. I wear a small in similar OR gloves and while the grip is fine for me, it's probably best for slightly larger paws than my own

Phil Schuld wrote: You'll probably be golden for either the 3.0 or Tech Machine then. I wear a small in similar OR gloves and while the grip is fine for me, it's probably best for slightly larger paws than my own

Thank you.

I might try out a set of Nomics in a few hours to see how they feel on some gloved hands!...at least that'll be out of the way!

Nick Sweeney wrote:Jason, I would pick up some Carbon Tech Machines and try them out. If you don't like them, you could likely sell them for near retail on here. If you are interested in mixed climbing, the non-carbon version may be better. I just LOVE how the Carbon Tech Machines climb ice!

I'm looking to shy away from anything carbon, just to be able to climb mixed in the future,...near future!

JasonSH wrote: Thank you. I might try out a set of Nomics in a few hours to see how they feel on some gloved hands!...at least that'll be out of the way!

No problem, and good luck! Preferences for ice tools seem to vary so much and I seem to be in a very tiny minority who love the 3.0. Trying for yourself is always the best option

JasonSH wrote: I'm looking to shy away from anything carbon, just to be able to climb mixed in the future,...near future!

Grivel Carbon Tech Machine shaft is T rated, same as Nomic.

divnamite wrote: Grivel Carbon Tech Machine shaft is T rated, same as Nomic.

I think staying away from Carbon for mixed climbing is a smart move. Carbon will be less rigid and repeated damage to the shaft could be a cause for concern.

Nick Sweeney wrote: I think staying away from Carbon for mixed climbing is a smart move. Carbon will be less rigid and repeated damage to the shaft could be a cause for concern.

Well I've seen what carbon can do in bicycle seat posts and bicycle Forks it blows up and that's the last thing I would want to happen with a pair of ice tools so for my personal preference I'm just going to stick to the original plan of shying away from anything carbon but I completely understand why someone would use them.

Phil Schuld wrote: No problem, and good luck! Preferences for ice tools seem to vary so much and I seem to be in a very tiny minority who love the 3.0. Trying for yourself is always the best option

If I just had somewhere to try them out just to handle them...take a few swings etc.

I am very hard on tools. I smash pins, drytool in steep caves on my Tech Machines, swing my picks into cracks, etc. So I would never buy a carbon tech axe.

I have a set of carbon North Machines for alpine. I don't drop those to the ground in cave from 10m off the deck, so I am happy with those being carbon. If you are a less abusive WI/M-climber, carbon is fine.

Nomics handles... it's all a personal preference thing. I have wide hands that still comfortably fit into the medium grip setting. I used to crank them down into the small setting for drytooling with thin gloves. I find I relax my grip more with a more open setting, and swinging into that hanging icicle is easier on medium, so I set-and-forget my Nomics on medium. Some guys are different and like the "finger lock" action from the narrow grip. I know an old-school old guy that climbs harder than me, and he leaves his Nomics on the widest setting all the time.

Just play around with it to find what you like.

Steven, how do you like the Carbon North Machines? They seem like a great alpine tool.

Nick Sweeney wrote:Steven, how do you like the Carbon North Machines? They seem like a great alpine tool.

Swing great, drytool like beasts on moderate grades, hammer is great, picks are durable and don't need a lot of love. I like the head-heavy, but nicely swinging balance. The new Grivel picks are significantly less sticky on the North Machines, simply because the Tech Machines are so steep.

Very easy to attach cord to the handle for umbilicals. Bottom spike is just OK, but I think a spike on a tech axe in the alpine is not that useful anyway. You're either on your feet, or it's steep enough to be swinging your tools.

They do not have an upper grip, but honestly I do not miss it. The bump is enough for matching on moderate terrain.

Too bad on the x-dreams - I think they thread the needle for your stated needs.

Sorry to be that guy, but have you tried the All-Mountains?

I am not comfortable with the nomic grip. Used them 3-4 times. I have all mountains and x-dreams, and I LOVE both, but the dreams are superior for mixed, and add a bit more space for swinging over bulges without bashing knuckles. The All-Mountains are nonetheless a beautiful tool with a great swing, sharp and supple pick (cheap replacement), and soon, an improved grip.

lukeweiss wrote:Too bad on the x-dreams - I think they thread the needle for your stated needs. Sorry to be that guy, but have you tried the All-Mountains? I am not comfortable with the nomic grip. Used them 3-4 times. I have all mountains and x-dreams, and I LOVE both, but the dreams are superior for mixed, and add a bit more space for swinging over bulges without bashing knuckles. The All-Mountains are nonetheless a beautiful tool with a great swing, sharp and supple pick (cheap replacement), and soon, an improved grip.

Well, I posted up a WTB for X-Dreams on the forums,..so we'll see what may float on by? Maybe I'll be presented with a chance to snag a good set...maybe not?
I just held a set of Nomics earlier today,..on medium setting, with a gloved hand, they felt great actually. Very comfy, natural swing feel. Good weight/balance to them.

I really like the tech machine, enough that I bought a pair. I liked the nomic too. Honestly, you can't go wrong with either.
Recently I was able to side-by-side nomics with tech machines, and I preferred the tech machine. The geometry is basically the same between the two, and the swing is very similar. I liked the handle on the tech machines better (for my hand) but the picks were what really sold it for me. Grivel picks are just plain great. The pommel on the tech machine didn't shred my gloves either, like the new nomics do.

I was also able to A-B test them with Xdreams. Again, I preferred the grivel tools. The swing on the dreams was weird to me and I wasn't a fan of the handle (it felt too open). I'm sure I could adjust if I climbed more than a few pitches on them though.

YMMV of course. Try them out if you can. If you can't, just go with whatever you want and don't worry too much about it. All of these tools are great options and you'll learn and adjust to your tools as you use them. Don't get caught up listening to the internut too much ;)

JasonSH wrote: I wear a size Medium in most outdoor research gloves,.. I'm concerned with handle sizes as well,...don't want something I feel I'm going to struggle with getting a good grip and wrapping my hand around.

I wear medium OR gloves as well and have no issues with my tech machines, so you should be fine.

The alpine alibi (at least the latest black/yellow ones) are really thick, and I can just get them to work. I usually just belay or follow with those, so it's not an issue for me. I'd advocate climbing in a thinner glove anyway. I have no idea how you guys climb in these giant mitts!

JasonSH wrote: Well, I posted up a WTB for X-Dreams on the forums,..so we'll see what may float on by? Maybe I'll be presented with a chance to snag a good set...maybe not? I just held a set of Nomics earlier today,..on medium setting, with a gloved hand, they felt great actually. Very comfy, natural swing feel. Good weight/balance to them.

Good luck! To be fair, you really can't go wrong here.

Hi everyone,

I found this thread so decided to comment.

I have used nomics, quantums, north machine (mix pic) and of ice is the intention nothing touches the quantums on steep water, however the nomics top hooking.

I'd always prefer to carry the tool that allows me to climb harder but is more awkward on easy angle ice than vice versa. 

However the machine 3 lools like a less adaptable and heavier version of a matrix/swing. Before getting the machine 3s consider the north machine without the hammer/adze, same swing, 100g lighter better dampening and warmer on hands tha machine 3, oh and much cheaper.

I climb in Scotland (winter)

My wife has a pair of Machine 3.0s and she says that the handles fit her hand the most comfortably out of everything she has swung.  I think she has a men's XS glove.  I know that the handles on her tools feel like they squeeze my fingers in when I swing them with a pair of XL OR Project gloves.

She was out with a group over the weekend on WI2-3+ near Lillooet and had a chance to swing Nomics, Quarks, Vipers, and something else and came away feeling like she was getting the best sticks with her Grivels.

I know it's not the most complete data but you can count her in the (apparently small) group of people that really like the Machine 3.0s.