Boulder, CO climber moving to East Coast

^^^lives in Jersey and wont admit it^^^

^^ rofl
Maybe don't say- lol What did NJ do to deserve this social leprosy :(
I lived in NJ the first 10 years of my life. I enjoyed climbing the 2 Japanese maple trees in my front lawn, the daffodil that bloomed without fail every year, the sunflowers & hydrangeas, the "uptown" area of my town Glen Rock, the train that ran thru my back yard, the vegetable garden I grew, the authentic Italian joint with Italian Ice and the best pizza. The motto isn't the garden state for nothing, it's easy to grow flowers, veggies and herbs there and the grass is soft. I didn't like the bullying in Elementary school because I was 1-2 years younger and way smaller. But I imagine OP won't be in elementary school.
kenr makes good points. Me not so much.
Maybe I will throw a more useful comment about the tolls. When I drove back from the Gunks to the JFK airport I was surprised to pass through my old town before crossing the bridge to NYC. The Bridge traffic to NYC is the worst. Thought I was going to miss my flight. It's like $15 for the toll to cross the Holland Tunnel from NJ to NY.

Seeing this thread a little late but unless you really like driving I would not consider NYC. You chose NYC for the culture not the climbing.

Yes, the Gunks is 1 hr away...if there is no traffic. I don't live in NYC but I have done the drive to NYC from the Gunks twice on Sunday night and at least 2hrs each time. Adirondacks are great but a drive.

I think you want the North Shore of Boston. I never recommend Boston in these threads but for you I think it is the best fit. Only 30 mins from Logan. Lots of local bouldering and trail running. Easy access to 95 for south NH climbing and other big climbing destinations in the White Mtns.

Nivel Egres wrote: If you could name a single location that not kitty litter

How about the V14 problem that Ashima Shirai sent in the last couple of years?
Closer to the GW Bridge than to the Gunks.

Anyway the Gunks had lots of loose rock when they first opened. Even nowadays, try going off-route there and see what happens.

Many new sport-climbing areas in Europe and USA that have opened in the last ten or twenty years were considered by experienced knowledgeable climbers as choss-piles before they got cleaned.

Ken

This thread has educated me that Boulderites have much to learn about snobbiness from New Yorkers.

Nah. There's a reason there is no "How do you know someone is from Manhattan?" joke...

Nivel Egres wrote:While I am all for the positive vibes, the OP also needs to know the reality of living here. None of the people that moved out West are too eager to move back to the NYC.

^^^ +2,401,311

New York on a whole is losing people every year. (Crappy) Weather, (high) taxes, (high) cost of living. You get 2/3 of those "benefits" in many places out West, but the weather is 180 degrees towards favorable. And let's not forget the vast swaths of rock to climb.

Ana Tine wrote:I like to imagine NYC & Manhattan 500 years ago, how unrecognizable it looked with trees and rivers and no statue of liberty, bridges, or skyscapers.

Me too. It was probably really awesome/beautiful. :(

New Yorker, born and raised, 5th generation, at least. Left four years ago for New Hampshire, and now Vermont.

This is the bottom line: how much do you want access to real mountains, and outdoor climbing/hiking?

If you can mostly live without climbing outside, and being in the mountains, then rock the NYC thing.

But, if you want anything close to the access you have in Boulder, or even fractionally close, then for fuck's sake, DO NOT MOVE TO NYC.

It isn't 4 hours to good mountains, it is more like 6. a shade under 2 hours AT BEST to the gunks, which can become 3-4 very easily, even if you are on the UWS of Manhattan.
It sucks. Unless you are a gym rat, then live in BK or Queens, close to the cliffs or BB.

I would much more heavily recommend Boston. You have similar transportation options, the same shitty traffic, but your access to climbing stuff is much improved. Pawtuckaway is close, and the white mountain playground is between 1:30-3 hours, depending upon your destination.

IF you can swing it, I throw you a curveball - Burlington VT - awesome small city with great access to all kinds of rock, snow and icy fun. Great culture scene, music, food, drink, etc.

trice Rice wrote: A couple questions you can help me out with: * If I were to move to NYC and needed to regularly travel to Boston, Philly, and DC where would you suggest I live? I will have to travel else where(internationally) but I would likely have more notice and getting to and from an airport(if its annoying) for less often travel doesn't seem too bad too me. Manhattan sounds awesome and seems like a full valued NYC experience, but I don't want to live there if travel to/from boston, DC, and philly is extremely inconvenient.

For Boston, DC, and Philly you'll be traveling by train, primarily from Penn Station (34th street). It's a shit show but easy to get to from most parts of the city. I pretty much agree with Dolgio's airport beta, and what other folks have said about living in Brooklyn and Manhattan. Choosing your neighborhood in NYC is crucial. I moved here 8 years ago and spent a month couchsurfing before deciding where to live. It depends on a bunch of different factors (cost, workplace, amenities, vibe, activities, etc). I've lived in 3 apartments: Boerum Hill in BK and Inwood and Washington Heights in Manhattan, and they all have their upside. For comparison's sake, before New York I lived in Berkeley and SF for grad school, Boston for college, and I grew up in Seattle. I'm a high school teacher.

trice Rice wrote: * Is it worth it for the experience to live in NYC if I am traveling 50ish% of the time? With that much travel my climbing would be non-existant outside of the gym maybe, but the city life might still be worth it. It takes a lot less planning to get home from travel and go to a show than to climb hard outside.

Yeah I guess this is the big question. Is it worth it. It really depends what you mean by "it". People come to NYC for millions of different reasons, and there are millions of things about the city to fall in love with. Of course there are the obvious things: music, museums, theater, food, nightlife, and all other types of excitement. These things are great, and unparalleled in the US. I would point to two other factors here that are special to me: one is the energy and two is the people. There's nowhere else I've lived that buzzes the way NYC does. Not just mid-town (which sucks), but even my little uptown neighborhood is alive at midnight when I'm walking the dog. People are on the street. It's really cool. And the people. Nowhere else I've been has the combination of different types of people from different walks of life that you'll encounter on your daily commute here. It's eye-opening. It's an education about the world. It's altered my perspective. It's a really magical place.

trice Rice wrote: * Should I bring a car? I know a car in manhattan is more trouble than its worth, but is the same true of brooklyn or queens? Is the easiest way to travel to neighboring cities (boston/dc/philly) by car or by train/flying?

I've always had a car in New York, and I've never paid for a space. Street parking is inconvenient, but, like others have said, if you're committed to doing trips on the weekend and at other times, it's totally worth it. Brooklyn was easier than Upper Manhattan. Washington Heights is harder than Inwood. I get to the Gunks most weekends in the fall and spring and I do a few other local trips a year (Dacks, New Hampshire, West Virginia, Kentucky, etc) as well as 2-3 long trips on school breaks.

Upshot: If you're only going to climb in the gym and you're going to the airport all the time I'd get a share or a studio/one bedroom (depending on your budget) in Long Island City, and I wouldn't bring a car.

Kevin Heckeler wrote: New York on a whole is losing people every year.

I don't know why someone would say this. The city is growing at a pretty robust rate (3.9% between 2010 and 2014) and the state is growing at a slightly slower rate (2.2% between 2010 and 2015). It's weird to make a clearly inaccurate claim like this with such casual confidence.

I'm a west coaster at heart, and there's a lot about NYC that's hard to deal with (it's expensive, crowded, dirty, and inconvenient). But for now at least, it's worth it to me. We all have to make that calculation for ourselves. It might feel like it's outside your comfort zone, but the most rewarding experiences almost always are. Kudos to the OP for thinking outside the bubble.

Don't know if it's been mentioned, and no, I have not read the entire thread, but for someone coming from the west, the northeast offers....

biting bugs that itch
humidity
much more frequent crappy weather
humidity - all. effing. year.
more limited climbing further apart

Living in NYC would be the worst purgatory imaginable. You may feel very differently.

For me, I would never live east of Denver ever again.

Me: Born and raised and lived in NJ within a 30min bus ride to mid-town Manhattan for my first 23 years, lived in Stamford CT 3 yrs then Wallingford CT for the next 18 yrs, moved to SLC UT 16 yrs ago and never looked back. Climbed in CT once, thought it sucked, climbed in CT a second time a few years later, thought it still sucked....thus the regular 100 minute drive to the Gunks.

Kalil Oldham wrote:I don't know why someone would say this. The city is growing at a pretty robust rate (3.9% between 2010 and 2014) and the state is growing at a slightly slower rate (2.2% between 2010 and 2015). It's weird to make a clearly inaccurate claim like this with such casual confidence.

Sorry, it was only this year (and not since 2006):

nypost.com/2016/12/20/new-y…

And while my casual confidence (impression) is technically inaccurate, by no means is New York seeing an influx of people flocking to it:

alloveralbany.com/archive/2…

Note where the States of greatest increase are -- NOT the Northeast... ;-)

"The continuing drag on New York's population total is that people are leaving for other states. Between 2010 and 2016, New York has lost almost a net 850,000 people to domestic migration. (Florida has gained about the same number of people from domestic migration.) And the Census Bureau estimates indicate New York lost about 191,000 people net between 2015 and 2016 this way.

Two things are continuing to prop up New York population: babies are being born here faster than people die, and migration from outside the country. Between 2010 and 2016, New York gained almost 550,000 people from "natural increase" (that is, babies born minus people dying). And it gained almost 700,000 from international migration."

In layman's terms - almost 200,000 people LEFT New York last year to move to a different State. This isn't a new trend, it's been the trend for a while. People are leaving, and there's no influx of people coming from other States to replace them.

Marc801 wrote:Don't know if it's been mentioned, and no, I have not read the entire thread, but for someone coming from the west, the northeast offers.... biting bugs that itch humidity much more frequent crappy weather humidity - all. effing. year. more limited climbing further apart Living in NYC would be the worst purgatory imaginable. You may feel very differently. For me, I would never live east of Denver ever again. Me: Born and raised and lived in NJ within a 30min bus ride to mid-town Manhattan for my first 23 years, lived in Stamford CT 3 yrs then Wallingford CT for the next 18 yrs, moved to SLC UT 16 yrs ago and never looked back. Climbed in CT once, thought it sucked, climbed in CT a second time a few years later, thought it still sucked....thus the regular 100 minute drive to the Gunks.

climbed in CT once in 18 years= not really into climbing, sorry bud. no, CT does not have mexican cracks and goodros cracks but really wtf?

Marc801 wrote: Me: Born and raised and lived in NJ within a 30min bus ride to mid-town Manhattan for my first 23 years, lived in Stamford CT 3 yrs then Wallingford CT for the next 18 yrs, moved to SLC UT 16 yrs ago and never looked back. Climbed in CT once, thought it sucked, climbed in CT a second time a few years later, thought it still sucked....thus the regular 100 minute drive to the Gunks.

In case anyone cares this puts Marc at 60 years old. You've lived, now let someone else discover for himself the good and the bad of the East. He doesn't have to stay there forever. I'm beginning to feel like OP is Dorthy in "the Wizard of Oz." I love ice cream, but ice cream every day for the rest of my life would be boring.

Btw I spent a summer at Choate Rosemary Hall in Wallingford, CT, and it was beautiful.

Kevin Heckeler wrote: In layman's terms - almost 200,000 people LEFT New York last year to move to a different State. This isn't a new trend, it's been the trend for a while. People are leaving, and there's no influx of people coming from other States to replace them.

Yes there has been a Southwest trend of migration in the United States. But that has little to do with OP's life. Why follow trends esp since he is in a trend area.

Kevin Heckeler wrote: : alloveralbany.com/archive/2… Note where the States of greatest increase are -- NOT the Northeast... ;-)

Weird so many people move to Texas, and no one moves to West Virginia. I lived in Texas for 15 years, visited West Virginia many times and would prefer West Virginia. To me almost any WV city feels more wild (true to their slogan) than the Denver area, every time I hike around Denver or Colorado Springs there are throngs of people and I feel like an ant following all the other ants in a pilgrimage. There is more rain in WV though and at first I was afraid I'd get eaten like in the movies but that didn't happen.

The United States takes in more Migrants than any other country in the world by more than double, over one million immigrants per year. Then a net of 1.35 million people also born each year beyond the number who have passed, for an increase of 2.35 million people in the United States each year -and increasing, because more people mean more births. The ports of entry include New York, and then they discover the humidity, gray skies, and mosquitoes and from there eventually flood southwest as the map Kevin linked to shows.

"If you like Boulder CO you will love Hoboken NJ'

With all due respect.... Let's not be that unrealistic to this nice young person asking for our advice.

The northeast corridor, in a big city (or nearby in urban sub-jungle), really is "the 7th circle of hell". The only way to justify moving to NYC would be a job in fashion, finance, or something else that is intrinsic to the city and gets you ingrained into the scene and absorbing all the amazingness within. A job that has nothing to do with NYC: why bother? You will be like a tourist. And the other crappy spots, smaller cities like Philly and Boston and even worse Newark, Hartford, etc etc, these places are antiquated, cultureless behind-the-times Holes.

This debate about NYC is very strange. I'm sure anyone looking to rent an apartment here would be very surprised to learn that everyone is leaving!

Oh wait, they aren't leaving... only the real Americans are leaving while the city is "propped up" by immigrants! (As the city has been for centuries.)

It is easy to get the wrong idea from selective statistics. I'm not sure what the point of this particular side discussion is supposed to be. That the city is in decline? This is obviously false, if it matters to the original poster. NYC is in its healthiest state in decades. I've been living in the city for 25 years and right now it is safer and more vibrant than ever.

That doesn't mean anyone has to like the city or that it is a great place for a climber to live. Unless the big city fills you with excitement it is a bad idea to move to NYC. It is in many many ways an irrational choice to live here. You have to really want to!

doligo wrote:Nah. There's a reason there is no "How do you know someone is from Manhattan?" joke...

From or lives in Manhattan? I think if you've made it to the actual top, you won't feel like telling mere peons about it.

On the other hand, how do you know if someone climbs at The Gunks?

It seems like the OP is leaning toward NYC but I wanted to throw Boston into consideration again. I have lived in both cities and they are vastly different. As a serious climber, I think Boston is a great choice. A few reasons to consider Boston:

• A huge variety of climbing gyms in Boston and near Boston that each have their own community which will help OP find partners etc.
• Proximity to a major international airport that can't be beat in any city.
• Weekend access to climbing in New Hampshire, Adirondacks, Gunks, Vermont, CT, and others.
• Weekday access to QQ, College Rock, Rose Ledge, Crow Hill etc.
• Weekday trail running in the Blue Hills or along the esplanade.
• Weekend trail running in the White Mountains, which is incredible training ground.
• Much lower rent in Boston/Cambridge vs. NYC. I live downtown and have a car for weekend trips which is completely impractical in NYC.
• Great place for education, residency, etc. in the medical field.

If preserving an outdoor lifestyle is as important as experiencing a new city, then I think Boston is a clear choice.

Alissa Doherty wrote:It seems like the OP is leaning toward NYC but I wanted to throw Boston into consideration again. I have lived in both cities and they are vastly different. As a serious climber, I think Boston is a great choice. A few reasons to consider Boston: * A huge variety of climbing gyms in Boston and near Boston that each have their own community which will help OP find partners etc. * Proximity to a major international airport that can't be beat in any city. * Weekend access to climbing in New Hampshire, Adirondacks, Gunks, Vermont, CT, and others. * Weekday access to QQ, College Rock, Rose Ledge, Crow Hill etc. * Weekday trail running in the Blue Hills or along the esplanade. * Weekend trail running in the White Mountains, which is incredible training ground. * Much lower rent in Boston/Cambridge vs. NYC. I live downtown and have a car for weekend trips which is completely impractical in NYC. * Great place for education, residency, etc. in the medical field. If preserving an outdoor lifestyle is as important as experiencing a new city, then I think Boston is a clear choice.

I would agree with this suggestion 100% though the weather is still going to be an issue along with traffic.

Ana Tine wrote: In case anyone cares this puts Marc at 60 years old. You've lived, now let someone else discover for himself the good and the bad of the East.

Well that's certainly the most obnoxious thing I've read on MP in the past year.

I don't care if the OP moves or not, but there really hasn't been much discussion of the drawbacks of the entire region, not just specific cities. It can be a rude awakening for someone from the west who is not expecting the things I mentioned.

If you're so into the "discover for himself thing", why are you even responding in the thread?