Ancient Art Christmas Tree - Common Sense Applies

When they outlaw climbing in the Fisher towers only the outlaws will climb.

Grog will try and climb on your Grandma though, watch that creep.

Travis Haussener wrote:Ummmmm...in case you guys forgot...and that video plays during NFL games, not on some dumb website monitored and managed by a bunch of dirty old hippies. Carry on

Done with a filming permit from the BLM; an activity - climbing the route - done by hundreds if not thousands each year. Still quite a bit different from the xmas stunt.

Despite poor feedback in the comments section of their web page Climbing Magazine continues to leave this video posted. Although it is no longer on the main page.

Mountain Project Journal and REI also continue to condone this behavior. (Edit)

Neither business has responded to the negative feedback they have received.

I thought it was pretty funny. The large masses of people climbing will be what limits access, not some group of very capable climbers, filming a stunt.

trailridge wrote:I thought it was pretty funny. The large masses of people climbing will be what limits access, not some group of very capable climbers, filming a stunt.

Yes but several groups of capable climbers filming several stunts will draw much more attention and magnify the attention the masses get.

trailridge wrote:I thought it was pretty funny. The large masses of people climbing will be what limits access, not some group of very capable climbers, filming a stunt.

I think the bigger issue is trashing the place, which multiple people have reported. And Andy Lewis said if he does it again he will leave more trash.

trailridge wrote:I thought it was pretty funny. The large masses of people climbing will be what limits access, not some group of very capable climbers, filming a stunt.

You clearly don't have much experience with land managers. Stunts are exactly what limit access. Cough, Delicate Arch, cough, Dean Potter, cough cough.

Now IF they got a permit and IF they practiced Leave No Trace, I really don't see a problem but it's still unclear if they got a permit and it seems that they left a relatively large amount of trash. I think this thing is likely getting blown out of proportion, but I think the verdict is still out on the potential blowback.

jason.cre wrote: And Andy Lewis said if he does it again he will leave more trash.

What's your source on that?

Kent Richards wrote: What's your source on that?

Facebook. It was probably in jest but still....

His response to criticism so far has been telling people to fuck themselves and calling them douchebags.....for noting that he left trash all over the place. Stay classy.

Tom Sherman wrote:Offending the Jews What else does the baseless pity party have to offer up?

Was this comment really necessary and what does it even have to do with the discussion on this thread?

From the climbing.com Facebook post:

Patrick Betts wrote: "I picked up a lot of the cardboard boxes and a bit of trash that got left by this group the day or two after when I went to climb the tower - a long with glitter all up and down the route (to be fair: the glitter may not have been this group but some other group but that glitter will be there forever.) These stunts, although unique, should not be accomplished at the sacrifice of being good stewards."

This was from climbing ancient art on the 13th. My party also picked up additional trash on the 14th mentioned in an earlier post, including lightbulb boxes, plastic wrapper, a half empty Gatorade bottle on the route.

Danforth wrote: You clearly don't have much experience with land managers. Stunts are exactly what limit access. Cough, Delicate Arch, cough, Dean Potter, cough cough.

Comparing these two I assume you are kidding and not that stupid. One is a mud pile with a tiny spire at the top and the other is a national park and on the f'n license plate of the state of Utah. One gets visited by a baziliion people a year and one get's visited by a few hundred, 90% of which are climbers. If Kor and Ingalls hadn't climbed it, this area would be so far off the radar people wouldn't know what this thread was about.

Leaving those stupid slack lines stretched between two towers for months on end is a good way to provoke access issues.

Im certainly not kidding.At no point did I claim they were "equal" but they are certainly comparable. You seem to have missed the point. One publicized stunt can do more damage to our relationships with land managers and therefore our access than thousands of "typical" ascents. I was responding to someone's direct assertion that stunts don't affect our access. I responded by pointing out a very clear example of why that is incorrect.

419 wrote:Despite poor feedback in the comments section of their web page Climbing Magazine continues to leave this video posted. .

Of course. Controversy is good for business. This is the most action they have seen in a long time.

This is similar to the media doing whatever they could to make Trump the candidate. They new he would drum up controversy, increase viewership, and be easily defeated. Well, 2 out of 3 ain't bad.

This is not a pro or con statement. Just an observation and thread drift.

rging wrote: Comparing these two I assume you are kidding and not that stupid. One is a mud pile with a tiny spire at the top and the other is a national park and on the f'n license plate of the state of Utah. One gets visited by a baziliion people a year and one get's visited by a few hundred, 90% of which are climbers. If Kor and Ingalls hadn't climbed it, this area would be so far off the radar people wouldn't know what this thread was about. Leaving those stupid slack lines stretched between two towers for months on end is a good way to provoke access issues.

Correct me if I'm wrong or out of line, but it does't sound like you've spent very much time in the Fishers. Though the Fishers don't have a line of cars waiting to get in (usually), it is a very popular stop for many tourists. It's the only place on the planet with formations like Ancient Art, making it very iconic (hence the Citibank commercial).

Most of the climbers that visit the fishers climb stolen chimney (not a Kor or Ingalls route btw) and do their best to leave it in good condition. A high profile stunt on any fragile and famous formation is objectively bad for access. The combination of the video and Andy's behavior on facebook make this look very, very bad.

Leaving slacklines is also clearly a stupid thing to do. I've seen it in the fishers and there is one between Parriot Mesa and Crooked Arrow Spire that has been there for years, you can see it from the road if your looking. I'm really surprised its still there.

All that said, the fishers are a special place to climb because it does still feel unregulated. Its the wild west, anything goes and I'm cool with that, as long as it's not attention seeking destructive nonsense.

Kent Richards wrote: What's your source on that?

andy's tantrum can be seen here:

facebook.com/georgie.abel/p…

D B wrote: andy's tantrum can be seen here: facebook.com/georgie.abel/p…

Thanks for posting that link. Almost makes wanna sign up to Facebook.

I learned how draw a jizzing or peeing cock and balls with keyboard characters. That will no doubt come in handy one day.

Robert Rowsam wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong or out of line, but it does't sound like you've spent very much time in the Fishers. Though the Fishers don't have a line of cars waiting to get in (usually), it is a very popular stop for many tourists. It's the only place on the planet with formations like Ancient Art, making it very iconic (hence the Citibank commercial). Most of the climbers that visit the fishers climb stolen chimney (not a Kor or Ingalls route btw) and do their best to leave it in good condition. A high profile stunt on any fragile and famous formation is objectively bad for access. The combination of the video and Andy's behavior on facebook make this look very, very bad. Leaving slacklines is also clearly a stupid thing to do. I've seen it in the fishers and there is one between Parriot Mesa and Crooked Arrow Spire that has been there for years, you can see it from the road if your looking. I'm really surprised its still there. All that said, the fishers are a special place to climb because it does still feel unregulated. Its the wild west, anything goes and I'm cool with that, as long as it's not attention seeking destructive nonsense. Could you imagine the backlash if people knew more about some of Jim Beyer's tactics in the fishers?

Correct me if I'm wrong, I thought Jim Beyer is just doing unorthodox aid techniques and possible sketchy actions on his FAs in the Fishers, not dressing like Santa putting up X-mas flair over the rock. Kind of apples to oranges.

Although people did get upset with him on Supertopo for allegations of booby trapping his Fisher and possibly Yosemite routes, along with anti-Semitism for a El Capitan FA.

jgfox wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong, I thought Jim Beyer is just doing unorthodox aid techniques and possible sketchy actions on his FAs in the Fishers, not dressing like Santa putting up X-mas flair over the rock. Kind of apples to oranges. Although people did get upset with him on Supertopo for allegations of booby trapping his Fisher and possibly Yosemite routes, along with anti-Semitism for a El Capitan FA.

No, your right. Edited my post. Unorthodox is also how I would describe what he does. Probably shouldn't have even brought him up, dude is a total badass. I could just see how some might call his ascents & route names "attention seeking and destructive." What he does is incredible and hardcore climbing, not ridiculous publicity stunts