Cipro and Climbing

Alissa Doherty wrote: I don't know the exact dosage of mine but I took a five day course mid-January 2013 and have a photo from mid-February 2013 with ice packs taped to my biceps(which was a nightly occurrence for a while). Within a month, I'd say.

Ouch. Did it subside or did you require surgery or anything?

FourT6and2 wrote: Ouch. Did it subside or did you require surgery or anything?

It subsided. As a silver lining, the tendons needed rest from hard climbing so I started getting into trad. Spent a few months learning on moderates, my tendons healed, and now I climb trad almost exclusively. Still could have done without the pain...but can't complain too much since it went away without serious damage.

A good friend of mine was given cipro as a treatment for what doctors diagnosed as Lyme disease. It did not end well for him. Ollie was a great friend, and an amazing person. Here's a link to his story:
boston.cbslocal.com/2015/11…
There's more, but there is no way to upload pdf files to mtn project, although ciproispoison.com is a good start

Bill Moser wrote:A good friend of mine was given cipro as a treatment for what doctors diagnosed as Lyme disease. It did not end well for him. Ollie was a great friend, and an amazing person. Here's a link to his story: boston.cbslocal.com/2015/11… There's more, but there is no way to upload pdf files to mtn project, although ciproispoison.com is a good start

That really sucks man, sorry.

Totally unrelated, but I'm reading stories of people getting "floxed" and in many of them, when you do a little digging, you find out they have taken some crazy doses. Like 400 pills. I don't know what that time-frame looks like. But my dosage was twice a day for 5 days. So some of the people complaining about Cipro and being poisoned by it were taking it for almost a year. That's a little crazy in my opinion. Not saying your friend fell into that group. But I don't think anybody would do well on any antibiotic for that length of time. All antibiotics are by definition poison aren't they? Here's just one example of the many I've read:

"My situation is complicated, because I have been wheelchair bound with lyme and co infections for 18 years. I have had about 400 doses of Cipro and 12 days of avelox. I actually got quite a lot better on the cipro for about 4 years, before deteriorating again. Unfortunately, I didn’t realize it was the cipro – because I had done well on it before, it never occurred to me that it was now harming me – and carried on taking it for a year or two after I was first floxed..."

Ollie was definitely not taking cipro for a year. He'd worked with a number of doctors, "normal", holistic, etc, none of whom was able to help him. It's been 4 yrs, and I (along with a lot of other people) still miss him.

Well, it's been a while now. My acute infection seems to have cleared up, mostly. Still a lingering sore throat now and then. I am having a tonsillectomy in the spring. I also have a number of odd symptoms going on right now. Not sure what's going on. But the two big ones are tremors/a feeling of twitchiness and muscle atrophy since taking Cipro...

I am struggling to climb 10d and 11b sometimes. Before all of this I was doing 12a.

I am seeing a neurologist next week at the suggestion of my doc. I'm also getting a needle biopsy of some lymph nodes in my neck that are palpable.

I don't feel all that bad. But I'm definitely weaker now than before all of this. And that has me worried. I can physically see that I've lost muscle in my entire body.

Here... you can actually see my legs shaking while bouldering this V4 in the gym. No bueno. Right when I'm hanging upside down you can almost see a weird shake go through my whole body. This happens all the time now...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WFeBK8wtl8

FourT6and2 wrote:Well, it's been a while now. My acute infection seems to have cleared up, mostly. Still a lingering sore throat now and then. I am having a tonsillectomy in the spring. I also have a number of odd symptoms going on right now. Not sure what's going on. But the two big ones are tremors/a feeling of twitchiness and muscle atrophy since taking Cipro... I am struggling to climb 10d and 11b sometimes. Before all of this I was doing 12a. I am seeing a neurologist next week at the suggestion of my doc. I'm also getting a needle biopsy of some lymph nodes in my neck that are palpable. I don't feel all that bad. But I'm definitely weaker now than before all of this. And that has me worried. I can physically see that I've lost muscle in my entire body. Here... you can actually see my legs shaking while bouldering this V4 in the gym. No bueno. Right when I'm hanging upside down you can almost see a weird shake go through my whole body. This happens all the time now... youtube.com/watch?v=6WFeBK8…

Edit to add: quote box not working??

Well, shit, eh?

I don't have anything helpful, just pull the people who care about you there close, and let your friends have you lean on them. Its what we're here for.

Hope you get some answers and at least figure out what's going on.

Truly, truly wish you the best, Helen

FWIW, you're climbing looked great to me! Nice that you've got problems you can top out on, too. You're heaps better than I'll ever be, but not exactly sayin' much, is it?

They didn't do the biopsy. Said the lymph nodes were too small at that moment and didn't want to risk missing 'em with the needle. Tech was like... you know... I've seen a lot worse. I don't think they're anything to worry about. You're pretty thin and muscley and they're probably just poppin' out because you don't have a lot of fat. So I guess that makes me feel better.

Neurologist said I'm fine too. Tremor is probably from de-conditioning because I've been sick for a bit. Hopefully it goes away.

So all in all, nothing to worry about hopefully. I'm getting my tonsil ripped out in the spring! That's gonna suck. So I'm gonna get all the climbing in that I can until then.

Peace out!

I've been looking at this issue and thinking about it for years. The issue with controlled studies and Cipro, like all studies , is that it's only good for the population , time period and variables included. It's also a big money and medically important class of drugs so there is lots of pressure to look the other way or not study an issue that may be small for the general population but a serious concern for climbers.
There is so much that can be missed even when working very hard to find the truth. From my reading this issue seems more like a long term comcern, which is virtually impossible to link, trace and gather reliable data on, so the short term acute studies could be useless in determining risk to climbers.
I don't think they have a mechanism yet as long term cellular changes and tendonosis matrix changes are just now being understood. In other words there is a lot we don't know and a lot that is missed.
When you add in a population like climbers who put 99th percentile loads on their tendons everyday you get an idea how much a focused long term climber study could change the numbers drastically as far as this issue is concerned. And that's just young climbers in the two to three decade range. What happens when you reach the over 65 group. Now you have age, long term climbing and the unknown variable of an FQ to deal with. In my opinion it's a serious concern.
I took FQs probably a few times when I was younger. I seem to have tendon issues and I have ruptured two tendons. Both ruptures occurred under high load but it seems like tendons are a weak link in my body. Once again, impossible to link scientifically with any accuracy unless a specific mechanism and histological marker is discovered. But as can be seen even from this short conversation it's so essy to miss and not even imagine some variables let alone test for them.

Pseudomonas is a bad bug and local suseptabilty patterns are significant . It looks like Cipro is the oral drug of choice nationally. But looking at prescribing options it gets a little complex but there are options with other classes, duo therapy, and even IV therapy.