Eldo Chalk Bandit

Seth Jones wrote: Your elitist attitude is laughable. There are lots of non-climbers who are bummed seeing climbers' chalk all over the rock as well.

I wouldn't say elitist, I just don't leave my shit for others to pick up. I clean up after myself and others and I don't behave like a dick when I am somewhere that other people are using. But hey we use chalk so whatever.

I understand that a lot of non-climbers don't like to look at chalk and in a lot of circumstances their argument is totally valid.

Open some eyes Seth!

Cor wrote:The problem with the chalk tagging along the trail is folks will think it's ok... From there the next logical step they might think is sharpies or spray paint. If the behavior is curbed early, then maybe we won't have to deal with that! I would much rather help Eldo in the way of cleanups of climbers chalk, bolts, trails, and loose blocks then having to try and keep up with tagging and taggers! I know most are just joking around on this thread.. but give Mike some applause, and help! He is such a awesome resource for us climbers in the park. Done so much for us. It's not like he is just a ranger in the park... I know, we all love to heckle the LEO's!

Dingdingding, you are correct, sir. That trail gets about 5,000 hikers per month in the busy season. It'd be a bummer if it started getting tagged with something more permanent.

FWIW, I'm no ranger - I'm a "technician". Telling people what to do just ain't my thing.

Seth Jones wrote: Why? Do you really think that you should be exempt from rules that others have to follow just because you climb?

At some crags, climbers have donated lots of money and volunteer time, so yes, I think they deserve special treatment.
Same for mountain bikers who create new trails- hikers shouldn't feel like they have the same right to stroll along those trails.
Same for nordic ski tracks.
Or shooting ranges.

But equating chalk use with graffiti is a false equivalence. If Joe Pubic wants to chalk up before scrambling into trouble, that's perfectly ok.
And if climbers start tagging the trailside boulders, that isn't!
No unequal treatment there.

If you dislike chalk, you could make a cogent argument against it.
But equating it with vandalism isn't it.

There is a significant difference between writing words and symbols on rocks along a popular trail and using chalk on vertical rock climbs. It is an interesting comparison though for sure. Perhaps the State Parks should start requiring the use of color matched chalk to lessen the visual impact??

Mark E Dixon wrote: At some crags, climbers have donated lots of money and volunteer time, so yes, I think they deserve special treatment. Same for mountain bikers who create new trails- hikers shouldn't feel like they have the same right to stroll along those trails. Same for nordic ski tracks. Or shooting ranges.

this is the exact kind of attitude we don't need in volunteer organizations. People who spend their time helping because they think they get special treatment out of it.

What's the purpose or intent of writing out a name or word on the rock? By definition that is graffiti. Unauthorized writing or drawing on a public surface. The use of climbing chalk is authorized. If a climber mid-pitch takes out his sock and marks his name, that would be regarded as the same as writing out Belarus on a trail-side rock. Sure there is some elitism going on in this thread but the core idea is "don't scribble writing or pictures on the rocks."

Seth Jones wrote: I'm going to exit this convo. youtube.com/watch?v=Jh5fMPz…

Awesome!!...Thank you Seth.

We saw "Meska" written on the West Redgarden trail below yellow spur ledge on Saturday. Same thin chalk line seemingly indicating sidewalk chalk. Strange since Mesca Line is on West Ridge... It came off easily with a little water.

Seth Jones wrote: I'm anti-hypocrisy but in that regard, I sense that I am part of the minority in the climbing community. Too many climbers run around with this sense of elitism, thinking that being a climber makes them special in some way. Chalk is chalk. If you are going to bitch about it being on rocks, stop using it when you climb on public land.

Seth Jones wrote: Volunteering time and money toward bettering public land does not give you special rights to that land. That mentality proves that you are the type of climber that give us all a bad name. Chalk on rock is chalk on rock. It doesn't matter if your primary goal is to deface the rock or if the defacement is a side-effect of your primary goal. I don't dislike chalk. I dislike assholes who think they deserve special treatment. Unless you clean off every last bit of chalk that you get on the rock when you climb, you have no right to bitch about chalk on rock. Rather than running circles around your judgement of different shades of grey, I'm going to exit this convo. Carry on with your elitist garbage.

Except that at this crag, the land manager allows climbing chalk and forbids graffiti.
As far as I can tell, the relationship between climbers and land mangers at Eldo is one of the most cooperative anywhere. It doesn't surprise me that Mike would ask for climbers to help when there's a problem.

curt86iroc wrote: this is the exact kind of attitude we don't need in volunteer organizations. People who spend their time helping because they think they get special treatment out of it.

I think we may be talking about different things.

I can imagine an "entitled" volunteer might be a problem for an organization.

But what I'm saying, is that it seems fair to me that if climbers volunteer their time, money and effort to build a climbing access trail or the like, then I think they should expect to be able to use it.

MacP wrote:We saw "Meska" written on the West Redgarden trail below yellow spur ledge on Saturday. Same thin chalk line seemingly indicating sidewalk chalk. Strange since Mesca Line is on West Ridge... It came off easily with a little water.

Thanks, MacP.

Seth Jones wrote: Volunteering time and money toward bettering public land does not give you special rights to that land. That mentality proves that you are the type of climber that give us all a bad name. Chalk on rock is chalk on rock. It doesn't matter if your primary goal is to deface the rock or if the defacement is a side-effect of your primary goal. I don't dislike chalk. I dislike assholes who think they deserve special treatment. Unless you clean off every last bit of chalk that you get on the rock when you climb, you have no right to bitch about chalk on rock. Rather than running circles around your judgement of different shades of grey, I'm going to exit this convo. Carry on with your elitist garbage.

better watch out or i'll have my peeps follow you around DL to make sure you clean off all your chalk...

keep your shit opinions to yourself.

New rule. It has been decided. No climbing chalk allowed in Eldo anymore.

we've apprehended two suspects.

On the redgarden trail between the wag bag station and the metal ladder.
looks like paint marker to me.

There's clearly a difference between climbing chalk marks and graffiti in terms of impact. Here's my own proof to myself: I've spent thousands of days in the hills, hiking, mountain biking, skiing, camping, backpacking, fishing, picnics, etc. Until I started climbing a few years ago, I never saw a single chalk mark from climbing ( nor a single bolt). But in that same time I saw plenty of graffiti along trails. There must be some difference between the two.

J Marsella wrote:On the redgarden trail between the wag bag station and the metal ladder. looks like paint marker to me.

Thanks for the heads up. I'll get after it. There's something I wanna try that could be lower impact than taginator/goofoff/acetone/... Further bulletins as events warrant.

That really is a SIN! Thank you for stewardship.

Finally got that thing on Redgarden. There were three different pieces of "art" there, had to break out the big guns to get all of them.

Brad B. aimed me at some paint marker graffiti on pseudo sidetrack.

Further up:

I'd guess ecological awareness isn't a big thing for folks tagging rocks, but it's kind of a bummer to have to unleash those kinds of chemicals to clean up their messes.

Wow Mike, thanks for your efforts!