Buying hand drill. Advice?

Like the title says, I'm looking to buy a bolt kit. I will be mostly looking to put in rappel and belay anchors on new back country trad routes. I want to start with a hand drill due to the weight, cost, and few holes I will actually drill.

Does anyone have personal experience and recommendations? Best bolts to place in hand drilled holes? Best drill bit? Where to save money and where to shell more out so I have something that works but doesn't break the bank? Tips for someone new to this?

Thanks.

Find somebody to teach you. Hand drilling is a lot more complex and involved than using a power drill. And then there's also all the concerns that go into putting in a bolt in the first place, such as prepping the rock so the bolt and hanger can sit flush, drilling perpendicular to the rock, etc.

Don't

No one should be recommending a bolt type without first hand knowledge of the rock you're dealing with.

And while those with hand drilling experience surely have their own preferences re. the drill holder and bits, I suspect you'll be able to get the job done with any of the commercially available devices. You do want to get some instruction however.

Get a Petzl Rocpec. Use 3/8 inch X 3 in. stud bolts. And hey, look. Here's a video.

youtube.com/watch?v=fezX_2M…

How big are your hands? Mine are large andni love the fixe drill. The hilti bits are the best bits and if used correctly are warentied. Cheap bits from dewalt are fine and come from the same factory as bosch.

If you place studs, make sure you place some in boulder to get the torque correct. Studs require a really precise torque.

Please set your anchors offset diagonal

Rob, curious why offset diagonal is the best? thanks

SamBedell wrote:Like the title says, I'm looking to buy a bolt kit. I will be mostly looking to put in rappel and belay anchors on new back country trad routes. I want to start with a hand drill due to the weight, cost, and few holes I will actually drill. Does anyone have personal experience and recommendations? Best bolts to place in hand drilled holes? Best drill bit? Where to save money and where to shell more out so I have something that works but doesn't break the bank? Tips for someone new to this? Thanks.

What kind of rock?

Just an opinion grog, I like 1 chain 2 links 1 ring. I also think by limiting the inward vector you can preserve the hole and limit twists.

Muscrat wrote:Don't

Best advice on this thread. I bought a hand drill for the same reasons that you want one. What a waste of money. I have placed a handful of bolts with it though, they helped me to decide to buy a real drill.

Rob Warden, Space Lizard wrote:How big are your hands? Mine are large andni love the fixe drill. The hilti bits are the best bits and if used correctly are warentied. Cheap bits from dewalt are fine and come from the same factory as bosch. If you place studs, make sure you place some in boulder to get the torque correct. Studs require a really precise torque. Please set your anchors offset diagonal

Pretty sure you mean 5-Piece (3/8 SS in particular) which have a greater risk of shearing off or worse, being close. Studs are more tolerant of under/over torquing. Not that you want to of course. With Stud/Wedges, hitting the correct torque lets you know the bolt will hold its listed strength. It's a torque controlled anchor.

Just an opinion grog, I like 1 chain 2 links 1 ring. I also think by limiting the inward vector you can preserve the hole and limit twists. </quote

Agree 100%, in a non-sport/lowering set up, offset diagonal is the way to go

i find The RocPec too small for my hands..Pika is much better.

Will be placing in tuff, basalt, andesite, and granite. My hands are probably a little smaller than average adult male climber hands. I appreciate the "don't" sentiment but its for ground up back country trad routes, not crag construction projects. No desire to haul the Hilti up some multi-pitch choss climb 10 miles from the car or try to free close to my current OS best with it hanging on my harness.

Thanks guys.

IMO sometimes people pay more attention when hand drilling bolts,, a good thing. Look around for the best placement, really flatten the drilling are before starting, frequently blow out the hole..etc

And NO not any hammer is fine,,,

I've used both the rocpec and the Fixe drills. I much prefer the rocpec. I prefer the smaller profile and tighter feel of it. The Fixe clanged like a bell and was cumbersome. If I recall correctly, changing bits on the Fixe involved removing screws or something too, whereas the rocpec system is easier and can't be dropped.

Be responsible in backcountry areas, ask yourself if your chosen line is a worthy route, and use bolts as a last resort. Particularly in Wilderness areas the Forest Service is watching.

runoutcustoms.com/Bolting_e…

I have placed many bolts on lead using this particular drill, my favorite, but others are available. Buy a good bit, you don't want it to break hanging from a hook way above your last shaky nut.

I you are going to place a bolt by hand in the backcountry use a good one. In granite, I have used Fixe SS 3/8 X 2 3/4 wedge bolts with good luck.

Practice on a piece of rock in your backyard first. It's not rocket science, but there is skill involved. I wouldn't place a hand drilled bolt in tuff personally, too soft. Drilling by hand creates an imperfect hole, which is worse in soft rock. Drill the hole deep enough, but not too deep, drill perpendicular to the rock (harder than you think), take your time and do it right.

Ya, tougher than it looks to do it right

Concentrate when drilling by hand

Rob WardenSpaceLizard wrote: How big are your hands? Mine are large andni love the fixe drill. The hilti bits are the best bits and if used correctly are warentied. Cheap bits from dewalt are fine and come from the same factory as bosch. If you place studs, make sure you place some in boulder to get the torque correct. Studs require a really precise torque. Please set your anchors offset diagonal

Run us through the reasoning behind offset and diagonal. Makes no sense to me. 

Nic Lazz wrote:

Run us through the reasoning behind offset and diagonal. Makes no sense to me. 

French setup uses the least amount of hardware with the smoothest pull when rapping. All the load and wear is on one bolt with the lower bolt as a catastrophe backup.

To Mick's point: it takes some skill to hand drill for a mechanical bolt in my local tuff. I know some vets who can pull it off, but I find it difficult to drill out a perfect cylinder, and the margin of error is smaller in soft rock. I'm replacing several bolts with glue-ins for this reason. Guaranteed I can hand drill a near- perfect hole into a rock in my backyard, but it's another story when hanging sideways off a cam. 

Why use hand drill? Wilderness area. Short of a really long approach, I don't see another good rationale for hand-drilling these days. There are some surprisingly light hammer drills. Plenty of discussion elsewhere on MP.

3/8" Powerbolts (5-piece, DeWalt) would be my choice for what you're describing. They engage well in imperfect holes, and are strong enough. We had to break one once and gained a lot of respect for this unassuming little bolt. They're not cheap.

Logan Peterson wrote:

3/8" Powerbolts (5-piece, DeWalt) would be my choice for what you're describing. They engage well in imperfect holes, and are strong enough. We had to break one once and gained a lot of respect for this unassuming little bolt. They're not cheap.

The 3/8" Powerbolts used to be very workable.  A few years ago they changed how they are made and the inner bolt is now only 1/4" rather than 5/16".  Stainless Steel 1/4" is a bit sketchy.  I do all my wilderness granite work now with 3/8" X 3" Hilti KB3 or Kb-tz. 

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