Mountain lions near Leadville

Dirt Squirrel wrote:Martha, they referred me to the wildlife control people. Their take was "I hope you learned a lesson". And yes I learned, you can't play in the woods at night here. If I go solo anywhere like that again, animal hot sauce. The gentleman on the phone seemed less than worried about it. Again, the encounter was only really scary because of it being night and I caught the animal following me out. And another point is this, this year alone a lady and her child were attacked by two mountain lions and she pried the jaws off of her child's head near aspen. In another incident, a mountain lion entered a home when it heard a crying child. And lastly, since game herds are becoming smaller, there is suspicion that predatory levels aren't as low as we think. Especially in areas like Leadville, where according to news reports, has a bit of a problem with sightings in and around town. Anywho, just telling people to be aware of your surroundings and don't freak out if you see one, just be bigger and meaner than it and that usually will do the trick.

You actually BELIEVE what you hear via the Media? Any cougar encounter is an unmissable opportunity to look directly into the camera and spread paranoia. Do you actually believe a mother "pried the jaws off her child's head"?? Not only is it physically impossible (even in humans the jaw muscles are the strongest in the body) but she'd have to CATCH it first! And then the cat isn't gonna claw the shit out of her? NFW.

Not only does the media deal in hyperbole, but witnesses do too.

I remember about 10 years ago a media story about a man who was "viciously attacked and killed" by a cat outside of Idaho Springs. The Media was all over it. I happened to have a friend who grew up in I.S.

The REAL story is that this 17-year-old-boy, with all his teen-age hubris, was a runner and ran up a certain trail regularly. He often saw a cat and taunted it every time, bragging to his friends about poking it with a stick. This went on for month or so until the cat tired of this asshole and killed him to get some peace and quiet.

If you saw a cat, be happy. You have an experience that few people have; not because they didn't live to tell but because even though cats in CO are quite plentiful, they are smart and generally don't let you see them. Children, of course, can't be left alone.

Oh, and where did you get the information that "game herds are becoming smaller"?

John Byrnes wrote: This is paranoia. Cougars don't "stalk". They conceal themselves, usually in a high place (boulder next to the trail) and then jump down. If the cat is actually hunting you, you'll never see it until it's too late.

Considering myself and Lee Smith were stalked by a cougar while night skiing near Jones Pass, I'm going to disagree with you here. Once we finally stopped, the cougar made a couple of advances at us that left us waving our skis at it and doing whatever we could to scare it away. Stalk and ambush. Its what they do.

I called DOW the next day and will continue to take that action with them or the appropriate land manager if it happens again.

When has a mountain lion in the back country been killed just for being seen by any of these agencies? Educate me because I am not aware of a single situation around here.

But like dirt says, you definitely want to be aggressive and mean when you see one coming at you.

Holy shit.

I definitely start moving my neck a lot when it starts to get dark and I'm alone anywhere in the hills. The worst part is that your mind can play tricks on you, so you think you see or hear something. If they can smell fear, we probably reek.

Sure, normal mountain lion behavioral patterns would mean that you wouldn't know you were being hunted until it was on your back trying to snap your neck with it's canines. However, we know that animal behaviors are becoming less "normal" as they're forced to adapt to new environmental changes.

Honestly, it sounds like it was stalking the OP, and that maybe it thought that OP wouldn't put up much of a fight so it wouldn't have to expend additional energy by stealthily concealing its movements (no offense meant). Who knows though, which is why you assume the worst and do whatever you can to make it clear that you will not be taken easily.

Agreed, we shouldn't be offing them just because they become more visible, but we will have to figure something out if they start learning that humans are pretty easy prey. Maybe we just need to all start bringing spray bottles and making 'pssst' noises when we see them misbehaving (cat owner joke). Or a laser pointer to distract them...(insert laser sight grip gun reference here).

John Byrnes wrote: You actually BELIEVE what you hear via the Media? Any cougar encounter is an unmissable opportunity to look directly into the camera and spread paranoia. Do you actually believe a mother "pried the jaws off her child's head"?? Not only is it physically impossible (even in humans the jaw muscles are the strongest in the body) but she'd have to CATCH it first! And then the cat isn't gonna claw the shit out of her? NFW. Not only does the media deal in hyperbole, but witnesses do too. I remember about 10 years ago a media story about a man who was "viciously attacked and killed" by a cat outside of Idaho Springs. The Media was all over it. I happened to have a friend who grew up in I.S. The REAL story is that this 17-year-old-boy, with all his teen-age hubris, was a runner and ran up a certain trail regularly. He often saw a cat and taunted it every time, bragging to his friends about poking it with a stick. This went on for month or so until the cat tired of this asshole and killed him to get some peace and quiet. If you saw a cat, be happy. You have an experience that few people have; not because they didn't live to tell but because even though cats in CO are quite plentiful, they are smart and generally don't let you see them. Children, of course, can't be left alone. Oh, and where did you get the information that "game herds are becoming smaller"?

John, Here's a reliable news source you might believe. It's called Faux news.
foxnews.com/us/2016/06/21/c…

In the off chance you want to see what the "crazies" also have to say:
cnn.com/2016/06/18/us/color…

I think she did get clawed up. It also appears as though they were Juvenile cats.
As far as "Prying open" that might be hyperbole... but Adrenaline can cause an increase in strength called "hysterical strength". Imagine the teenage girl lifting a car up off her dad as he's pinned beneath it and you get the idea. Also I was followed for a good distance catching reflections of it's eyes from bushes as I shined my light up hill and continued to throw rocks? I bet if I turned around and ran, I might be typing this from the safety of the ICU. What would you call that behavior at night? Stalking? I really just tried to warn people about the presence of these animals and what I did that worked (correct actions). If you want to get into a tit for tat about stalking vs. not stalking, etc... go ask the damn cat what he was thinking. Jesus.

Regarding stalking vs not stalking, there's plenty of "official-like" ;-) literature on the web -- including some national park websites -- that claims mountain lions do stalk prey. In spite of the park service's shortcomings, I'd expect them to have biologists who are up on this kind of thing.

Big Bend National Park website.

Mountain lions have the largest hind legs in the cat family which allows them to stalk prey then attack with short bursts of speed and great leaping ability. ... Preferring habitat with dense brush, trees, and rocky ledges, mountain lions can ambush as well as stalk.

Rocky Mountain National Park website

Mountain lions can sprint to chase down prey over short distances, but they are better built for the ambush. They stalk prey quietly through trees, boulders or other covered areas. They move until they reach a striking distance of 30 feet or less, and leap on to their target's back with a suffocating neck bite.

@Trice, "terrified" is probably too strong one way, but totally naive us too far the other. If you are soloing anything, anywhere, any time, well away from other people, you are accepting some risk. Understand it, do what you are comfortable with, then have fun. What I would recommend to you, for a lot of reasons, is a well trained dog to run with you. :-)

My city, Boise, is also planted in mountain lion habitat, and they cruise right through a city of over 200,000 pretty regularly, especially in the winter. Deer come down, follow the river, cats follow the deer. Only reason anyone knows about the cats, are tracks in the snow.

A couple years ago, a young cat got off course, onto a fenced bike path, and ended up treed by a local hospital, next to a freeway at morning rush hour. Almost no one even knew! I personally missed that one on my bike commute by only about a half hour. My route is now down city streets, when I have to go in the dark, though!

The best story was a co-worker traveling in from our foothills to work one wintry morning. He and a cat ended up on a very narrow high bridge at the same time. For a short while the cat was running right beside him.

We've had an awful fire season close to town, burning up a significant amount of winter habitat for deer and elk. I won't be a bit surprised if we see more cats this winter, when the prey is forced lower and closer.

We all need to be sensible, but I truly love living where wildness still exists!

Best, Helen

Me too Helen. Ever since my encounter I've been trying to capture a mountain lion on my trail camera. So far no lion but I did manage to capture this beautiful bobcat up in Deer Creek Canyon.

Enjoy!

Scott McMahon wrote: Check out this video of some rangers getting a cougar out of a trap. Balls of steel I tell you. amazingpandph.com/wild-coug…

That was a great video and a heartwarming story of helping that cougar. I didn't know those leg traps were still legal, but I don't know anything about trapping. They just seem cruel.

Legs Magillicutty wrote:Me too Helen. Ever since my encounter I've been trying to capture a mountain lion on my trail camera. So far no lion but I did manage to capture this beautiful bobcat up in Deer Creek Canyon. Enjoy!

How did you find out his name was Bob? :o)

FrankPS wrote: That was a great video and a heartwarming story of helping that cougar. I didn't know those leg traps were still legal, but I don't know anything about trapping. They just seem cruel.

I'm pro-hunting, but I DESPISE trapping. How it is legal in any sense is beyond me. It's as cruel as it comes. Bleed out, starve, or rip of their leg. Horrific.

Mountain lions are opportunivores. If an animal (including humans) appears tired, sick or not paying attention to surroundings they will often try to attack. One thing I always notice people doing while hiking is looking at their feet while moving through rocky (read ambush) terrain. As said up in the thread, don't appear to be prey. Move with a purpose, look around and appear dominant. A wild animal doesn't want to spend too much energy taking down prey or risk getting hurt. You are most susceptible around dusk and at night. Also be careful if you have a medium to small dog. Carrying a 500+ lumen torch is probably your best defense if you see one. Yell, scream, bark, growl and make yourself look big.

Over 10 years of solo mountain trips I've only seen a few and felt a few more but I've never seen an aggressive one.

I think you guys are making a mountain outta a mole hill..

I've done every stupid thing possible. I walked away from a grizzly bear in Golden BC. I jumped on my bike and ran away from the largest bear I've ever seen in Whistler BC. Seriously this bear was like a brown polar bear!! I chased after a cougar drunk in Squamish... And no, she didn't get on MP and start a 20 page thread about me staring at her.

Don't be weak and the animal will leave you alone.

Legs Magillicutty wrote: Considering myself and Lee Smith were stalked by a cougar while night skiing near Jones Pass, I'm going to disagree with you here. Once we finally stopped, the cougar made a couple of advances at us that left us waving our skis at it and doing whatever we could to scare it away. Stalk and ambush. Its what they do.

I believe it followed you but as I said, if it wanted to kill/eat you, it would've ambushed (you got that right) you from a concealed position, and it would never have let you see it beforehand.

John Byrnes wrote: I believe it followed you but as I said, if it wanted to kill/eat you, it would've ambushed (you got that right) you from a concealed position, and it would never have let you see it beforehand.

That's exactly what it did. We didn't see it until it was coming at us. What's your point exactly? Were you there?

...did the wildlife experts advise you to change your name? Maybe if you became "Big Mama Grizzly" or "Large Angry Wolf" instead of lil "Dirt Squirrel" you wouldn't have these cougar stalking issues? Jus tryin' to help here.

Seriously, thanks for the heads up, and as an aside to anyone who cares, a dog for a companion is a great thing on solo backcountry walks. Fact Jack.

ps, of course they stalk.

Legs Magillicutty wrote:Me too Helen. Ever since my encounter I've been trying to capture a mountain lion on my trail camera. So far no lion but I did manage to capture this beautiful bobcat up in Deer Creek Canyon. Enjoy!

That is awesome. I have seen lions before but never a bobcat. Someday :)

John Byrnes wrote: I believe it followed you but as I said, if it wanted to kill/eat you, it would've ambushed (you got that right) you from a concealed position, and it would never have let you see it beforehand.

Geez buddy, since when did you become the lion whisperer? Seems like the NP Service may know a bit more than you and they seem to think that lions stalk prey, so I dunno, you come across here as a bit arrogant.

I was chased by a mountain lion while trying to poach Vail mountain coming up the minturn mile 2 years ago. we decided to take the scenic route up "Cougar ridge" and true to it's name, we stumbled on 2 cubs and a mama, at first they ran off and we kept moving toward our objective, but then she came back, probably to chase us out of her territory and away from the den. she stalked/followed us (group of 4) for about 5 minutes. It was one of the most terrifying experiences of my life, and i had that creepy "there out there" feeling while out in the wilderness for a long time. It took more than a couple shots of whiskey to calm the nerves after that encounter. But I didn't call any authorities, for the fear that any reports would lead to the untimely demise of these glorious creatures, under the guise of "public safety". These creates who have every right to be where they are and to chase me out of their home. I thank mama lion or what it taught me and it's good to be reminded that we can become part of the foodchain.

Beast in the Garden is a good read on the topic of mountain lions in CO.

amazon.com/Beast-Garden-Pre…

Dirt Squirrel wrote: John, Here's a reliable news source you might believe. It's called Faux news. foxnews.com/us/2016/06/21/c… In the off chance you want to see what the "crazies" also have to say: cnn.com/2016/06/18/us/color… I think she did get clawed up. It also appears as though they were Juvenile cats. As far as "Prying open" that might be hyperbole... but Adrenaline can cause an increase in strength called "hysterical strength". Imagine the teenage girl lifting a car up off her dad as he's pinned beneath it and you get the idea. Also I was followed for a good distance catching reflections of it's eyes from bushes as I shined my light up hill and continued to throw rocks? I bet if I turned around and ran, I might be typing this from the safety of the ICU. What would you call that behavior at night? Stalking? I really just tried to warn people about the presence of these animals and what I did that worked (correct actions). If you want to get into a tit for tat about stalking vs. not stalking, etc... go ask the damn cat what he was thinking. Jesus.

Yes, but they don't say how juvenile. Maybe 30lbs, or maybe German Shepard sized at more like 50lbs.

In the CNN report they say that there's been 20 fatal attacks since 1890, 14 of which were children. So you, as an adult, might have a better chance of being hit by a meteorite.

This kind of paranoia is exactly what inexperienced divers/snorkelers say about barracuda. Barracuda follow you around, sometimes for 20 minutes, sometimes within 10 feet. Oooo, they're stalking you. Notice the title of this video Giant Barracuda CHARGING group of Divers.

youtube.com/watch?v=aeUSBJm…

What nonsense. I've had some amazing encounters with barracuda. When they truly want to move fast, it's like they just appear/disappear. So if they really wanted to eat you, they could. Just like a cougar.

So "why" would a cougar follow you around? Hard to say, could be territorial (especially males) or protecting a recent kill or mere curiosity. But what is really clear is that if they let you see them, they are not interested in eating you.

Legs Magillicutty wrote:Me too Helen. Ever since my encounter I've been trying to capture a mountain lion on my trail camera. So far no lion but I did manage to capture this beautiful bobcat up in Deer Creek Canyon. Enjoy!

Are you using a motion-senser-triggered camera/video to monitor an area where the cat is known to hang out?

Oh, and notice the story of when the photographer was asleep and the cat didn't eat him ;-)

vimeo.com/offthepavement