Petzl Evolve Adjust & Aid Climbing...Anyone Try it?

Interesting, I just saw the Connect Adjust the other day and thought they might make good adjustable daisies as a pair. Didn't realize the Evolve Adjust even existed. Anybody using the single sided Connect Adjusts for anything?

Trevor. wrote:Interesting, I just saw the Connect Adjust the other day and thought they might make good adjustable daisies as a pair. Didn't realize the Evolve Adjust even existed. Anybody using the single sided Connect Adjusts for anything?

The connect is so beefy I can't imagine anyone except maybe a single-pitch guide using them.

In terms of them locking open, yes they can but people seem to forget that the normal buckle design can lock open as well if a biner or something jams agains the buckle. I've had both styles lock open on me at abo The the same (low) percentage of use.

Absolutely no slippage on jugging and I siege FA so have probably jugged over 30-50 pitches worth in the past three months or so.

Can it be released under load though? That's important and the reason why I use the Yates adjustable instead of the Metolius or older Petzl one. Neither of those could be released under load, so when you're top stepping and pulling on the daisy, you cant extend it allowing you to top step higher.

Sort of. It releases under load much more easily than the Metolius does, but not as easily as a buckle style.

Andrew Gram wrote:Sort of. It releases under load much more easily than the Metolius does, but not as easily as a buckle style.

Yeah, depends on how much pressure you're putting on the daisy. If you backed off the pressure a little it does allow you to modulate the slack coming through so you can stand up with tension on the daisy, so you can use the tension to keep your balance, while releasing the amount of slack you need.

Suppose I'm top stepping and pulling up hard on this because I accidently didn't give enough length to fully stand upright in the top step, how awkward/difficult is it to release an inch or two when it is below you? With the buckles it is easy, Metolius not so.

DrApnea wrote:Suppose I'm top stepping and pulling up hard on this because I accidently didn't give enough length to fully stand upright in the top step, how awkward/difficult is it to release an inch or two when it is below you? With the buckles it is easy, Metolius not so.

It would would be difficult if you're standing and pulling up hard. I haven't really found it a problem though. I clip the daisy into the biner on the ladders so that the daisy biner slides up the spine of the ladder biner and I keep the tension and get that extra couple of inches I need to high step.

I would say it's a little easier than the Metolius easy daisy, but not going to work well in a high load/pressure situation.

DrApnea wrote:Suppose I'm top stepping and pulling up hard on this because I accidently didn't give enough length to fully stand upright in the top step, how awkward/difficult is it to release an inch or two when it is below you? With the buckles it is easy, Metolius not so.

If you're truly topstepping and your daisy (no matter what kind) is tight and you're pulling up hard on it (thus leading me to understanding that you're not talking about a slab situation) then you're not going to be able to reach down and adjust any daisy without falling backwards on more-than-vertical terrain. Best to just reset and add some length from the comfort of your fifi.

I don't use a fifi and coming back down wastes time, but thanks for the suggestion. The question is about this device. Sometimes a little extra reach allows you to make the placement work, but you have to be able to adjust the daisy to do it. The easiest fix in these cases is just by depressing the cambuckle type adjustable daisy. Metolius is near impossible because you have to pull it in the opposite direction of which you are trying to force progress (when above the piece). How are these? Anyone have firsthand experience with it like this? I can speculate like everyone else here, but would rather hear from someone that has actually used it.

DrApnea wrote:I don't use a fifi and coming back down wastes time, but thanks for the suggestion. The question is about this device. Sometimes a little extra reach allows you to make the placement work, but you have to be able to adjust the daisy to do it. The easiest fix in these cases is just by depressing the cambuckle type adjustable daisy. Metolius is near impossible because you have to pull it in the opposite direction of which you are trying to force progress (when above the piece). How are these? Anyone have firsthand experience with it like this? I can speculate like everyone else here, but would rather hear from someone that has actually used it.

I've used every style out there and aid climb every weekend. The answers above address your question. If you can give it a moment of slack (which if you're bending down to reach for it while stepping high you can) then it will release. On more than vertical terrain this isn't practical as you're more likely to fall out of the top steps. Grabted with a buckle design you can "pop" some slack through while tensioned, you'd need a stick of some sort to reach your buckle if you're truly top stepping while trying to do this.

To answer the specific question of whether you have to pull in opposite directions like the metolius jokes, no, all you need to be able to do is give a bit of slack to the line and then roll the device along the biner effectively releasing the angled tension that keeps the rope in place.

Mark Hudon wrote:I'm going to check them out a shop next week. I'll report back. As far as Daisy falls go, to me it's a simple DON'T DO THAT! I never move into a new peice with my daisy connected to the previous peice. Even when I'm bounce testing something, I'm not connected to the lower peice.

Mark, does that mean your ladders are not clipped to you? Thanks

Thanks for the info and explaining it. I just got off the nose and saw a party with these. I liked the fact that they didn't have to worry about straightening out the webbing like on most adjustable ones, but worried it would be have some of the annoying caveats like metolius does for releasing.

DrApnea wrote:Thanks for the info and explaining it. I just got off the nose and saw a party with these. I liked the fact that they didn't have to worry about straightening out the webbing like on most adjustable ones, but worried it would be have some of the annoying caveats like metolius does for releasing.

Not to derail things, but I'm heading to The Nose in a week. Anything of note to know about that is out of the ordinary? Are the fixed ropes still on the East Ledges rappels?

Back on topic, as I said earlier these will release easier than the Metolius, you sort of rock the locking mechanism back to release, but the harder you're putting pressure on it the harder it will be to release. Still a bit easier than Metolius. I really like not having to deal with twisted straps and the fact that they are made of dynamic rope means they have a little stretch in them, not much since they are short, but not totally static like most daisies.

Rap lines looked new. Thick static ropes. Nothing special otherwise. Send it!

David Coley wrote: Mark, does that mean your ladders are not clipped to you? Thanks

Mark has posted in the past about the speed and efficiency of not attaching the ladders to yourself with a daisy. I don't follow his lead because he's mfing Mark fingHudon and I'm mfing not.

Nope, never.

Well, not really never. If the climbing is severely overhanging or awkward I use them.
Otherwise I use an Alfrifi when I need to be tight in to a peice or when I'm top stepping. I don't worry about dropping aiders since they always tend to tangle up with you when you fall and in 29 El Cap routes, I've never dropped one.

I've seen you post that many times Mark, your time to watch them fly is coming! ;) (Knock on wood) and I thought the idea was not to fall. Again;)

Mark Hudon wrote:Nope, never. Well, not really never. If the climbing is severely overhanging or awkward I use them. Otherwise I use an Alfrifi when I need to be tight in to a peice or when I'm top stepping. I don't worry about dropping aiders since they always tend to tangle up with you when you fall and in 29 El Cap routes, I've never dropped one.

Mark, do you clip the rope into the lower piece before you test the new piece?

Yes, I clip the lower peice before leaving it.

Aid slings come and go. It won't be the end of the world, nor will it change my technique.

Hey guys, thanks for the beta! I just saw these things being used on El Cap for the first time by the Euros, and want to give them a go.

I especially like the idea of not having to untwist daisies all the time.

A few comments re. standard buckle style adjustable daisies like Fish and Yates:

1. When they begin to slip, a bit of WD40 or cam lube on the springs will get them working again and not slipping

Caveat: Do not keep them too long after they become worn and lose strength! John Yates tells me they last 70 pitches on average, but mine don't last that long as I am doing the Vertical Camping all the time, and crawling over anchors more

2. You guys need to get yourselves an Alfrifi! This is an idea of David Allfrey's where a big hook is welded onto the end of an adjustable daisy buckle. the Alfrifi is so good, I cut my Kong adjustable fifi off my harness after using it for nearly twenty years to fine tune my top-stepping.

ANY adjustable daisy is insufficient to really fine tune your top-stepping on hard aid. You are losing inches of height in each placement. So if you are not using some type of fifi setup with your adjustables, you are losing height every time.

The Alfrifi is such a superb invention in big wall climbing, it rivals other great inventions like big Peckers and Tomahawks, and Totem cams.

Mine was made by Skot Richards and I bought it from Mark Hudon - but they tell me they won't/can't make them any more. Accordingly mine is for sale, but not for less than five hundred bucks! [yes, it's worth that much to me, it's THAT good]

3. Traditional adjustable daisies can be used in all sorts of big wall applications. Try putting one permanently rigged on top of your portaledge, so that you can quickly and easily adjust the height of your ledge next to your pig. When my daisies are tired from use on my harness in my aid climbing system, I move them over to my ledge.

Another place you can put one is on top of your pig, alongside your 7mm docking tether cord [or whatever you use] for convenience and redundancy. Just remember when releasing your pigs, to release the adjustable daisy first, and then release the load release knot second. This is not a problem when climbing with a partner on a plumb pitch, but doing it the other way around when either soloing, or on a diagonal haul, will cause you big problems.

Cheers, eh?