Grand Valley Climbing in Grand Junction is raising their rates

Chad Miller wrote:Ah, my mistake! Then again I've dropped from the top of the training walls without issue. In fact I see quite a few experienced climbers doing the same without issue. I guess it's what you're comfortable with and how sure you are at your landing. I'm sure a supplementary pad would make it a softer landing and help the inexperienced or pumped from elongated an ankle or twisting a knee.

They aren't meant to be dropped on without supplemental pads. Keep your story straight...you are starting to sound like a silent partner in GVC the way you are defending them. I have heard more than 20 members have complaints about the route setting. If you like 5 and 6 month old routes, and paying more money, so be it. Dave and Tyson are very nice people but the gym is not run well and the setting as a whole is way below most other gyms. I have even had private messages sent to me on here from current or former employees that don't want to post but share the same concerns I bring up, as well as other concerns.

I'm not defending the gym. I agree that the routes need to be changed more often. I agree the setters need to be better managed; I never said otherwise.

One question for you Eric. Why are you so involved in critiquing the gym, it's routes, and management? You now live several states away and have made it rather clear bothe online and in person that you don't like the GJ area and wouldn't be returning.

John, I simply forgot what the flooring situation was as for my fat ass they don't feel very different when I land on em.

Em Cos wrote: That's just a nonsense argument. Nothing is permanent, that doesn't mean nothing has value or is worth holding onto. Would you also say "health isn't permanent, so why try to hold onto it"? By, say, eating well, exercising, or using mats to protect you from falls?

I think you're missing my overall point... It's more of a philosophical statement. You know, philosophy right? Kinda something that's relevant to overall outlook and can be found in all aspects of society, old and current. ( btw health isn't permanent or guaranteed even after those precautions..) But I do like your point about things still being worth holding onto. That defiantly rings true and was a fallacy in that statement I failed to see or bring up, so thank you. Anyways, of course obviously survival is necessary and yes they are getting more money, but for functional reasons and to improve the overall quality of the gym. It was again, philosophical so I'm not abandoning practicality. My main argument was that there is no reason to act like self centered individuals about something as meaningless as a gym in relation to the context of life as a whole. See how easily you got caught up in that one, very small detail of my overall arguement? Out of what I wrote it's clear to see that that's the was the trending detail taken which is sad all in itself... Anyways, to conclude as my last posting, I simply wanted a decent, but firm voice to be heard. Final tidbits to take away: constructive criticism is good and very healthy! It is very different from bashing! Bashing helps nobody, not even the basher as evidenced the negative feelings still persist. Everyones feelings are all relevant and not wrong. However, this thread seemed especially negative so I addressed what I felt needed to be addressed with my own distinct, equally valuable outlook.

Chad Miller wrote:I'm glad someone brought up the yoga mat thing. I thought that several of the critiszisms and comments in this thread where embellished or mendacious. Thank you Julie.

Thank you!

Chad Miller wrote:I'm not defending the gym. I agree that the routes need to be changed more often. I agree the setters need to be better managed; I never said otherwise. One question for you Eric. Why are you so involved in critiquing the gym, it's routes, and management? You now live several states away and have made it rather clear bothe online and in person that you don't like the GJ area and wouldn't be returning.

I live in GJ, even if I am away from there for extended spells.

Julie555 wrote: yes they are getting more money, but for functional reasons and to improve the overall quality of the gym.

The very reason I even started this topic was the fact that when I was informed of the rate increase, I asked if they planned to use any of those additional funds to change the routes more often, and was told "We change them often enough."

So in my mind, they are not using it to improve the overall quality of the gym in the one area lacking most.....route setting quantity and quality.

Grand Valley Climbing
July 21 ·
Over the last month we have reset the whole gym! Lots of new and fun routes on the wall.

MT head wrote:Grand Valley Climbing July 21 · Over the last month we have reset the whole gym! Lots of new and fun routes on the wall.

If they are going to make a lie like that they should not date the climbs at the start of them. I walked through Aug 30th and counted every route, and marked ones from Feb, Mar and Apr. Should have included May because those are too old for a modern gym also.

As was already said, Earthtreks and Movement change routes about every 12 weeks. If you go to either gym twice per week, even these gyms get a little bit stale after just a few weeks. 6 months would be tough; I wouldn't bother going.

MT head wrote:^^ So Andrew.... you're saying it's a lack of management problem?

Yup. I wouldn't even say that the route setting is the main issue, it's a symptom of a larger thing. The average customer isn't even aware of most of the issues. It's more about how the gym treats the employees and has no direction or organization. Even if the route setters read this whole thread, and go immediately to reset every route, in six months it will be right back to how it was because there is no accountability or follow-through from the upper management.
Just to be clear, I'm not at all bashing the attendants or supervisors. They kick a lot of a$$ and worked really hard to make things happen. The trainers are also just working with what they have (there's more danger to the aerial class members with out the pads than the systems board) and they have requested the proper materials, but someone has to notice that they need that stuff and order it.

Eric Carlos wrote: They aren't meant to be dropped on without supplemental pads....

Just to clear this up, (this was partly my job there) the fixed flooring pads in the training area are the same as the pads in the roped climbing areas, not the bouldering area. However, it is, from a liability standpoint, acceptable to fall on that fixed flooring from the height of the first bolt in the lead cave, and thereby alright for MOST of the systems/campus board. But I wouldn't want to test it from the top. :-D

Bag42 wrote: Yup. I wouldn't even say that the route setting is the main issue, it's a symptom of a larger thing. The average customer isn't even aware of most of the issues. It's more about how the gym treats the employees and has no direction or organization. Even if the route setters read this whole thread, and go immediately to reset every route, in six months it will be right back to how it was because there is no accountability or follow-through from the upper management. Just to be clear, I'm not at all bashing the attendants or supervisors. They kick a lot of a$$ and worked really hard to make things happen. The trainers are also just working with what they have (there's more danger to the aerial class members with out the pads than the systems board) and they have requested the proper materials, but someone has to notice that they need that stuff and order it.

Like when they canceled day care permanently via Facebook with a 5 day notice?

Yes, yes, exactly like that. That's usually about how far ahead of time those decisions are made. We tried doing things like having managers meeting to plan stuff, but certain important individuals watched videos on their phones instead of being part of the meeting. Won't mention who. But getting anything done more than a week ahead of time was near impossible.

BTW, it is now mid Sept and my GF was there climbing last night and there were still 31 routes just in the downstairs area from April and 5 from March.

Man, I really missed out on this while out of the country!

The last couple times there were MASS route changes, it was for comps. Which would have been great except that we were told to not climb them. The second time that happened they simply just removed the start holds from the routes to keep people from climbing them. I pay a membership fee and then get told I can't climb routes that are set?

Honestly, all I want is some fresh routes. I pay good money to use the gym. The "just go outside" argument is irrelevant. We choose to pay for a gym membership. Whether or not we have access to outdoor climbing isn't even part of the issue. Funny that folks think you must just be a gym monkey if you are complaining about a gym. I climb outside as much as humanly possible. But we, as patrons of the gym, should be able to complain when the gym isn't living up to our expectations. Its not like we were given the gym for free by some benevolent human.

Myself and MANY others have been complaining to anyone that will listen at GVC about the route setting, or lack of it. Among other things. But it largely seems to fall on deaf ears. Its sad, because the facility could be great. But why should I keep paying, and now pay MORE when GVC hasn't done anything to improve the experience. I could save that money and just build a woody in my garage, at least then if the routes didn't change I wouldn't be paying a monthly fee to climb the same thing over and over again.

So this isn't just a couple of people with an ax to grind. This is a large portion of their monthly members getting upset, and the gym doing nothing to about. Eventually people will start talking with their wallets I imagine.

Edit...and I can verify for what Eric's GF passed along to him in the above comment. Same old routes.

James Hicks wrote:Man, I really missed out on this while out of the country! The last couple times there were MASS route changes, it was for comps. Which would have been great except that we were told to not climb them. The second time that happened they simply just removed the start holds from the routes to keep people from climbing them. I pay a membership fee and then get told I can't climb routes that are set? Honestly, all I want is some fresh routes. I pay good money to use the gym. The "just go outside" argument is irrelevant. We choose to pay for a gym membership. Whether or not we have access to outdoor climbing isn't even part of the issue. Funny that folks think you must just be a gym monkey if you are complaining about a gym. I climb outside as much as humanly possible. But we, as patrons of the gym, should be able to complain when the gym isn't living up to our expectations. Its not like we were given the gym for free by some benevolent human. Myself and MANY others have been complaining to anyone that will listen at GVC about the route setting, or lack of it. Among other things. But it largely seems to fall on deaf ears. Its sad, because the facility could be great. But why should I keep paying, and now pay MORE when GVC hasn't done anything to improve the experience. I could save that money and just build a woody in my garage, at least then if the routes didn't change I wouldn't be paying a monthly fee to climb the same thing over and over again. So this isn't just a couple of people with an ax to grind. This is a large portion of their monthly members getting upset, and the gym doing nothing to about. Eventually people will start talking with their wallets I imagine. Edit...and I can verify for what Eric's GF passed along to him in the above comment. Same old routes.

Sounds like everything is still the way it was since you have been out of the country actually! ;)

Have you guys spoke with the owners in person?

Tylerpratt wrote: Sounds like everything is still the way it was since you have been out of the country actually! ;) Have you guys spoke with the owners in person?

I was referring this this forum post ;) Missed out on the convo!

I haven't seen him in awhile TBH. But I also haven't been in the gym much in the last month or so. I talk to other employees though, and they have all said they hear the same complaints all the time. So I wouldn't see how the owner wouldn't get wind of them as well.

They don't have a great method for customers to leave feedback unfortunately either. Like a couple other folks mentioned, there used to be a book with the routes listed and a place to leave comments, but that went away relatively quickly.

From what I've heard from patrons: he's difficult to approach and talk to; he's set in his ways and his response is " if you don't like, it leave " There's many debacles that he has insisted on which have been against the climbing community and never for it. Day care, gear shop, yoga, routes, feedback, ect....
Example: You keep daycare and maybe charge 5$ an hour to parents as a service to the community. You get rid of the daycare and insert a retail shop is personal ego. People buy on amazon anymore and I would bet the gear shop is a complete flop.

2nd hand info so someone can clarify.

James Hicks wrote: I was referring this this forum post ;) Missed out on the convo! I haven't seen him in awhile TBH. But I also haven't been in the gym much in the last month or so. I talk to other employees though, and they have all said they hear the same complaints all the time. So I wouldn't see how the owner wouldn't get wind of them as well. They don't have a great method for customers to leave feedback unfortunately either. Like a couple other folks mentioned, there used to be a book with the routes listed and a place to leave comments, but that went away relatively quickly.

I knew what you were referring to bro! =)

Sometimes a good confrontation can get the job done. Even if he goes with a "get out of my gym if you don't like it" he heard what you have to say and he cant forget hearing it. It might change something. The only way something wont change is if no one says anything to him. (I know you said people have but the more people that confront him about it the better).