Basics of soloing

Hey, I'm just trying to learn how to top rope solo and some advice on which gear and setup to use. I currently am considering just top roped soloing by the way for those sad days where I can't find a partner and still want to get out and at it. I'm cosnidering snagging a static line long enough for my small local crag here in town (with top access) and building a normal two point anchor and attaching the line to the master point with a BFK or some other solid know of that variety. I have a full (singles) trad rack and have taken vertical rescue courses so i'm familiar with belay escapes, fixed rope ascension, ascenders and so forth. I was just wondering which self belay devices you guys prefer and how you think it is best to attach them to yourself. I've also read about using a backup device on a chest harness and was wondering if that was also a good idea. I currently do not own any assited braking belay/rappel/ ascenion gear and was willing to make the investment in that as well as a rope and a couple carabiners to prevent crossloading. Just interested in knowing the best way you all toprope solo. I'm willing to pay enough to stay safe but I'm not wanting to really break my wallet so that I can do some toprope laps. I'm also open to offers for selling any of the gear I may need, which would be much appreciated. Thanks for the input!

Jake C wrote:I'm willing to pay enough to stay safe...

Lots of threads here and elsewhere on on TR soloing, but just know there is no amount you can pay to "stay safe". Staying safe in any form of soloing isn't about money or devices, but rather judgment.

We all have different ways and could argue for hours but I'll trust my way any day and whatever way you choose you need to trust 100% with no reservations.

Btw. My way - grigri with two figure eights at the anchor and overhand knots on the second rope as a backup. I really like the process.

Healyje wrote: Lots of threads here and elsewhere on on TR soloing, but just know there is no amount you can pay to "stay safe". Staying safe in any form of soloing isn't about money or devices, but rather judgment.

I understand what you're saying but just to clarify I was referring to buying specific types of gear. For example I know of some devices that are mainly used for hauling and may not be intended to have consistent body weight thrust upon it, and although they're cheaper I'd rather go with something that is ment for body weight (obviously).

I use 2 Petzl micro traxions. One connected just to the belay loop and one connected to a chest harness as well. Two strands of rope. One for back up knots and one for the traxions. The Petzl web site gives instructions but soloing is not recommended.

https://www.petzl.com/US/en/Sport/General-principles-for-solo-climbing-with-a-fixed-belay-rope?ActivityName=Rock-climbing#.V61mmp9MHqA

T Burgess wrote:https://www.petzl.com/US/en/Sport/General-principles-for-solo-climbing-with-a-fixed-belay-rope?ActivityName=Rock-climbing#.V61mmp9MHqA

Note - at the bottom of that Petzl document, they show their Basic ascender. BUT... the Basic was re-designed a year or so ago, and Petzl no longer recommends it for TR self belay. The previous Basic was outstanding for this purpose (I've been using one for 10 years). OP - I can get you one of the older ones for $50 or so; PM me if you need more info on the device or how it's used for TR self belay.

Petzl Microscender/rescuescender. Kong Duck looks like similar function but I have not used that one. Healyje's comment about judgement is sound, of course it goes beyond climbing.

Jay Eggleston wrote:but soloing is not recommended.

Devil's advocate perhaps, but really, why not? I feel like their soloing set-up is more secure than a single rope, with another person's hands attached to it....
people get dropped all the time by other people, and on a solo line, often a static rope, it seems there is less ability for abrasion to wear on the rope up top, and less ability for someone else to drop you...
edit: also, im aware that lots of people have poor judgment and also that every situation is different.

For starters: no one to double check you, no one to hear you scream, no one to drag your unconscious ass out of the crag...

Things to consider:

1. Toothed arresting devices over non toothed devices. Are you going to be climbing in icy/wet conditions?

2. Are you topping out, rappelling down, running laps?

3. The ease of disengaging the arresting device from the rope.

4. Will you be climbing one line, or using two?

5. Will you be using one device, or two?

6. Are you climbing your static rope, or using a dynamic?

7. etcetera, etcetera, etcetera...

Your setup may be what is preferential for you as an individual, and the climbing area you are at. Most will find their own way through a little trial-and-error of fiddling with their setup until they feel comfortable and competent. I would advise to test, and have dialed in, your specific preferred setup before hitting the route.

A lot of people use toothed devices, but I do not. I do not climb in an icy environment, so non toothed devices work for me. I have personally seen what a toothed device can do to a rope on a bad fall... not good, and can be expensive, if not a day ruining experience. I use the Petzl Rescucender for my primary device and the Microcender for a backup. Be aware, some devices have a switch/lever to engage or disengage the device's function... these may never cause you an issue, but could have the potential if manipulated incorrectly and at the wrong time which could cause injury or death.

I do not usually run laps either. I move from one climb to the next mostly, so I'm not worried about a quick rappel back to the ground so I can go back up again. No GriGri for me - just a DMM Pivot to get down if not topping out.

Sometimes you can get in a predicament where the device gets caught up against a knot, or you need to get down. Can the device you picked be disengaged from the rope easily, or turned "off" without much effort and struggle?

Some use one line to climb, but I feel better with two, as Petzl shows. This is just my preferred though. The reason is because I know if something happens to one line (rockfall chop, whatever, etc.) I have redundancy.

There are climbers that use two devices, and some that use one with a knot or lanyard system. As stated above, I use two devices. I don't have to worry about tying knots all the way as I go - one here and there when I feel the need is all. I do not use a chest harness either. The reason is because I do not want it coming up around my neck if for some unknown reason the primary device attachment becomes compromised or fails.

I've seen climbers use static lines just fine for top rope solo, but I believe a dynamic line is better. There are times when a little give in the rope leaves your body happy. Plus, you may just run into a partner and not need to solo... well, now you have the right gear for the job.

The gear you use is decided by preference and need, but as stated by other posters, your safety is your own. If you are soloing, it means you are alone. Know how the gear you are using works! Know what the functional capabilities and limitations of the gear you are using are. Know that if something goes wrong (injury, stranded, etc.), being alone can be a bummer. Triple check yourself because it is only me, myself, and I.

BigFeet wrote:Things to consider: 1. Toothed arresting devices over non toothed devices. Are you going to be climbing in icy/wet conditions? 2. Are you topping out, rappelling down, running laps? 3. The ease of disengaging the arresting device from the rope. 4. Will you be climbing one line, or using two? 5. Will you be using one device, or two? 6. Are you climbing your static rope, or using a dynamic? 7. etcetera, etcetera, etcetera... Your setup may be what is preferential for you as an individual, and the climbing area you are at. Most will find their own way through a little trial-and-error of fiddling with their setup until they feel comfortable and competent. I would advise to test, and have dialed in, your specific preferred setup before hitting the route. A lot of people use toothed devices, but I do not. I do not climb in an icy environment, so non toothed devices work for me. I have personally seen what a toothed device can do to a rope on a bad fall... not good, and can be expensive, if not a day ruining experience. I use the Petzl Rescucender for my primary device and the Microcender for a backup. Be aware, some devices have a switch/lever to engage or disengage the device's function... these may never cause you an issue, but could have the potential if manipulated incorrectly and at the wrong time which could cause injury or death. I do not usually run laps either. I move from one climb to the next mostly, so I'm not worried about a quick rappel back to the ground so I can go back up again. No GriGri for me - just a DMM Pivot to get down if not topping out. Sometimes you can get in a predicament where the device gets caught up against a knot, or you need to get down. Can the device you picked be disengaged from the rope easily, or turned "off" without much effort and struggle? Some use one line to climb, but I feel better with two, as Petzl shows. This is just my preferred though. The reason is because I know if something happens to one line (rockfall chop, whatever, etc.) I have redundancy. There are climbers that use two devices, and some that use one with a knot or lanyard system. As stated above, I use two devices. I don't have to worry about tying knots all the way as I go - one here and there when I feel the need is all. I do not use a chest harness either. The reason is because I do not want it coming up around my neck if for some unknown reason the primary device attachment becomes compromised or fails. I've seen climbers use static lines just fine for top rope solo, but I believe a dynamic line is better. There are times when a little give in the rope leaves your body happy. Plus you may just run into a partner and not need to solo... well, now you have the right gear for the job already. The gear you use is decided by preference and need, but as stated by other posters, your safety is your own. If you are soloing, it means you are alone. Know how the gear you are using works! Know what the functional capabilities and limitations of the gear you are using are. Know that if something goes wrong (injury, stranded, etc.), being alone can be a bummer. Triple check yourself because it is only me, myself, and I.

That was good. I'd add one thing - keep a cell phone in your pocket.

FrankPS wrote: ...one thing - keep a cell phone in your pocket.

+100 Frank!

FrankPS wrote: That was good. I'd add one thing - keep a cell phone in your pocket.

And an ID card/note in full view in your vehicle . Something like

Your Name,
Climbing at -xx Wall/zone,
Will be Back at vehicle, Time & date - 8pm, this day.
Your cell number ( if you have service )
Emergency contact number.

Hey Now ,
2yrs ago,(& 0ne month, to the day!)
The top rope soloing /rappelling accident in NH, that involved the death of arguably one of the best ever - from the east coast -climbers, The Man From Main. who had been guiding & climbing at the highest levels for 40 yrs , has given me a new perspective on offering advice on what is, in my opinion , an activity that is never (SAR,trained) safe.

The trend to think the technology makes. It. Safe for anyone seems very wrong to me. The example that experts with years of experience, have messed up, as well as that others with Decades of experience are now responding with guarded comments should be a warning flag to you.

We are all saying go for it ! you should, your heads screwed on straight.
The best use of your money would be in paying someone to show you how to top rope solo.
Or use your $$ to go climbing with others, learn all the systems find safe partners, practice
top rope soloing with a partner, get your system 'dialed in',
it is almost always the case that Steep = Safe, when trope soloing, a Steeper line = AirBall, or a clean flight path. Anyway the rewards of solitude are double edged.

Serious noob question because I've never considered soloing of any kind (besides DWS) ever:

Is there anything wrong with just buying a gym style autobelay and rigging it to a ridiculously overbuilt TR anchor if top access is available? They definitely get points for safety and simplicity, being that gyms are able to basically strap brand new climbers onto them on day 1...

Ted Pinson wrote:Serious noob question because I've never considered soloing of any kind (besides DWS) ever: Is there anything wrong with just buying a gym style autobelay and rigging it to a ridiculously overbuilt TR anchor if top access is available? They definitely get points for safety and simplicity, being that gyms are able to basically strap brand new climbers onto them on day 1...

In theory there would be nothing wrong with this, although I'm sure the manufacturers would emphasize that their gym autobelayers are not intended for outdoor use.

More importantly, it would be a severe pain in the ass to do this; the devices are heavy, anchoring them in would be a pain, and they are much more expensive than any sort of more conventional toprope solo device.

I've always just used a grigri with backup knots on a fixed single rope for TR soloing.

Ted Pinson wrote:Serious noob question because I've never considered soloing of any kind (besides DWS) ever: Is there anything wrong with just buying a gym style autobelay and rigging it to a ridiculously overbuilt TR anchor if top access is available? They definitely get points for safety and simplicity, being that gyms are able to basically strap brand new climbers onto them on day 1...

If you've got several thousand dollars to spend, and the wherewithal to learn how to rig one safely, and can justify the lifetime maintenance cost against how often you'll use it, then yeah, I guess so.

Still no protection for user error, but that's true no matter what you do.

Michael Schneider wrote: The top rope soloing /rappelling accident in NH, that involved the death of arguably one of the best ever - strictly east coast -climbers, The Man From Main.

Would you have any more details on what happened to the person in this accident?

I would strongly urge you to use a dynamic rope vs a static line.

I use a bowline on a bite at the anchor, weight the ends of the rope with a few coils or shoes etc. Then i use a 5 mil cord to tie a micro trx and a mini trax to both hard point on my harness. This takes longer to set up than using a biners to connect the devices, but if you do fall, the slack created by the biner flipping upwards is enough to make the fall unpleasant and jarring and also cause damage to your rope. Additionally, the 5 mil cord is not going to crossload when you fall.

I use a micro trax and a mini trax which are both toothed ascenders, but I find when I tie them into my hardpoints with cord, the fall is so limited that the wear on my rope is minimal. It WILL eventually destroy your rope, but just don't use you fanciest rope for TR solo set ups.

This setup is not easy to rap with... so laps can be cumbersome.

Dave

Thanks for all the input, to give you all a bit more info i live in eugene and we have a tiny little crag in town with maybe 25 routes on it. It is 45 ft tall and u can access every anchor from the top. There is no approach as a car just reaches the bottom and often i even bike. I just have an extremely erratic work scheduleand it is often hard to find belayers to crank out laps to hone my crack technique on whenever i choose. Im not planning to do anything incredibly remote or tall. I have two dynamic lines right now hut i was told that for tr soloing a static line is preferred. Does anybody know of any truth to that? Also i will not be climbing in any icy conditions, at the very most a sudden drizzle that oregon loves to thrust upon us.

Brian Scoggins wrote: If you've got several thousand dollars to spend, and the wherewithal to learn how to rig one safely, and can justify the lifetime maintenance cost against how often you'll use it, then yeah, I guess so. Still no protection for user error, but that's true no matter what you do.

Well, he said money wasn't a problem...