Eldo anchors

Alex Shainman wrote:Sounds like almost everyone is understanding the original poster's point of view...and I concur!

The guy said he was LOWERING off these anchors. I very much DO NOT concur with that. It's lazy and thoughtless wear and tear on a public resource for no other reason than convenience.

Let me rephrase my comment...

I think rap stations work better when the points where the rope runs through are touching (i.e. when chains are used). This is what I concur with the OP. Lowering is sometimes necessary when cleaning a pitch (a steep route is an example and there is no follower) - otherwise yeah, don't lower off anchors, rappel instead.

lloyd wrote: The guy said he was LOWERING off these anchors. I very much DO NOT concur with that. It's lazy and thoughtless wear and tear on a public resource for no other reason than convenience.

...and safety.

While every climbing area has its own ethic regarding lowering vs rapping, it's worth remembering that the AAC has come out in favor of lowering as a generalized procedure for cleaning single pitch climbing as a matter of preventing accidents. Personally, I rap because I feel confident doing so and to minimize my impact on the fixed gear, but the wear and tear is really negligible, especially when the cost of replacing rings is measured against lives. Obviously, top roping off rap rings is another matter, but that's not what the OP is asking about.

americanalpineclub.org/reso…

I know I've seen some tests about lowering rings cited here on this site and other places. Maybe fixe, maybe Jim Titt, maybe both. What I recall was that as long as the ring was able to move, they basically couldn't wear it out.

If the ring somehow got bound up and the exact place got lowered off every time, yes it would wear out at the speed that 5/16-3/8 steel gets worn down by ropes. IE, very slowly unless you've got very dirty ropes.

So properly placed lowering setups pretty much won't wear out. It doesn't matter if you lower or rap if they're done right. If they're done wrong, you can only rap because of the rope twisting issue.

My favorite is this

+ a chain in a vertical alignment.

This won't get done in Eldo though because there are too many people convinced that their old shitty ways are the best.

How bout webbing and screw links?

cengelke wrote:While every climbing area has its own ethic regarding lowering vs rapping, it's worth remembering that the AAC has come out in favor of lowering as a generalized procedure for cleaning single pitch climbing as a matter of preventing accidents.

AAC catering to short-attention span, no skills needed types. Screw that. Climbing is dangerous. They'd be better off trying to create more knowledgeable climbers.

Even though I don't really care much about people who lower off chains or quick links that can be readily replaced, if you went to the link you posted, you will see that the AAC case they're showing is NOT that situation. The AAC demo shows welded shut style hangers. I've seen those hangers (in two different areas) literally worn to the point where you were legitimately worried about their ability to hold you on the way to the ground. Lazy a-holes that continue to put that kind of wear and tear on fixed, unreplaceable (for all intents and purposes) anchor components should be relegated to stay in the gym (IMO of course).

Cheers to those who made this a productive post. while I am not the eldo junky some of you are, I still get in there weekly and i am always very appreciative to those who work hard to trundle death blocks and replace hardware. You have made my climbing experiences exponentially better and I cannot thank all of you enough. On a side note, Is it just me or does everyone seem to treat eldo like their ex girlfriend? NO ONE CAN TOUCH HER WITHOUT MY PERMISSION!! YOU CANT JUST PUT ANY SORT OF METAL IN HER HOLES, THEY MUST MEET MY SPECIFICATIONS IN RELATION TO THE SIZE OF MY HANDS!!!

Yes we all love eldo dearly and are all equally protective of her in our own, skewed ways.

lloyd wrote: AAC catering to short-attention span, no skills needed types. Screw that. Climbing is dangerous. They'd be better off trying to create more knowledgeable climbers. Even though I don't really care much about people who lower off chains or quick links that can be readily replaced, if you went to the link you posted, you will see that the AAC case they're showing is NOT that situation. The AAC demo shows welded shut style hangers. I've seen those hangers (in two different areas) literally worn to the point where you were legitimately worried about their ability to hold you on the way to the ground. Lazy a-holes that continue to put that kind of wear and tear on fixed, unreplaceable (for all intents and purposes) anchor components should be relegated to stay in the gym (IMO of course).

So I've replaced quite a few welded shuts far away from whatever area you call precious lately.

I did it because they were rusted and had shitty position for the rope. The next round I've got my eyes on will get replaced because they're not welded.

Anyway, it's super easy to do. Not the impossible task you make it out to be. Years ago when I'd do this, I'd just use the bolt that was already there and put a better hanger on. These days, since Mr. German shared his version 2 bolt extractor with the world, it's not much effort to yank and upgrade to 1/2".

In my opinion, everyone should toprope daily on shuts, with sandy wet ropes, until they're all gone. They are a blight that should be rooted out.