Mt Rainer Clothing,..Parka?

Nathan Sward wrote:On the hard shell: my recommendation is just buy a "rain coat". For Rainier, I used a Marmot Precip (on sale for ~60). Does exactly what you need it to. Bombproof in rain. Pit zips to dump heat, if you need it. Much less breathable than technical "hard shells", but that won't matter for you! Seriously, a hard shell is one of the last articles of clothing I would spend money on.

I've worn a rain jacket on long hikes up steep climbs and have roasted terribly,...they simply don't breath and I want to keep the sweat to a minimum by making sure I'm well equipped with pieces that will keep the experience enjoyable.

JasonSH wrote: I've worn a rain jacket on long hikes up steep climbs and have roasted terribly,...they simply don't breath and I want to keep the sweat to a minimum by making sure I'm well equipped with pieces that will keep the experience enjoyable.

You don't wear a hardshell unless it's raining or sleeting. They are emergency pieces and it won't be enjoyable in the weather you'll need to wear it anyway :)

Nick Drake wrote: You don't wear a hardshell unless it's raining or sleeting. They are emergency pieces and it won't be enjoyable in the weather you'll need to wear it anyway :)

That is hardly true. Hard shells have many functions besides when it is precipitating. Like when it is windy or cold. They also make a nice pillow.

Allen Sanderson wrote: That is hardly true. Hard shells have many functions besides when it is precipitating. Like when it is windy or cold. They also make a nice pillow.

Start wearing a windshirt, your hard shell will live in the bottom of the pack where it belongs. The old 3 layer system gore sold us all on is bullshit.

Nick Drake wrote: You don't wear a hardshell unless it's raining or sleeting. They are emergency pieces and it won't be enjoyable in the weather you'll need to wear it anyway :)

But I don't consider rain or sleet an emergency.

Correct, the weather won't be enjoyable I'd be wearing it in, but why would I want to make it worse by wearing a rain jacket with nearly zero breath-ability and building up enough sweat under it to water a garden?
A well-made hard shell has the ability to breathe far more than your usual rain jacket like a Marmot Precip or a north face hyvent (of which I own the later, fantastic rain jacket, but it may as well be a trash bag when it comes to keeping sweat in).

(here's a good article on hardshells vs rain jackets etc.)
outdoorgearlab.com/Hardshel…

I'm not looking to go broke buying a hardshell but I also would like to mitigate the amount of sweat my layers underneath end up being soaked with when all is said and done.

My personal feeling in the conditions that you would need a rain jacket the only direction that you should be going on Rainier is down, using less energy when breathability doesn't matter.

If it's raining/sleeting on you approaching muir/schurman/whatever 10kish bivy then it's snowing up high. Even if the weather clears up the next day that means thin new snow bridges on crevasses and/or potential avy danger with enough accumulation. I've made the mistake of traveling in crevasse terrain immediately after snowfall and found myself 20 feet in a blue abyss. Not making that mistake again.

Not saying don't buy a hard shell though if you're doing winter outings around home. I just wouldn't run out and buy one if it's *just* to do Rainier.

Nick Drake wrote:My personal feeling in the conditions that you would need a rain jacket the only direction that you should be going on Rainier is down, using less energy when breathability doesn't matter. If it's raining/sleeting on you approaching muir/schurman/whatever 10kish bivy then it's snowing up high. Even if the weather clears up the next day that means thin new snow bridges on crevasses and/or potential avy danger with enough accumulation. I've made the mistake of traveling in crevasse terrain immediately after snowfall and found myself 20 feet in a blue abyss. Not making that mistake again. Not saying don't buy a hard shell though if you're doing winter outings around home. I just wouldn't run out and buy one if it's *just* to do Rainier.

I appreciate the insight. Rainer will be my first above 6k feet.
I'm looking to have something when it comes to a hardshell that I can use for years! I got a great deal on an outdoor research axiom just this morning. Got a $10 coupon in the mail,..coupled with 20% off from the same place and the jacket was already marked down drastically. Figured all of those things aligning I'd take the dive and see how it fairs.

Nick Drake wrote:My personal feeling in the conditions that you would need a rain jacket the only direction that you should be going on Rainier is down, using less energy when breathability doesn't matter. If it's raining/sleeting on you approaching muir/schurman/whatever 10kish bivy then it's snowing up high. Even if the weather clears up the next day that means thin new snow bridges on crevasses and/or potential avy danger with enough accumulation. I've made the mistake of traveling in crevasse terrain immediately after snowfall and found myself 20 feet in a blue abyss. Not making that mistake again. Not saying don't buy a hard shell though if you're doing winter outings around home. I just wouldn't run out and buy one if it's *just* to do Rainier.

Obviously you have not been on routes where going up and over is the preferred option. Even when shit hits the fan. Also several times on Rainier I have left Paradise when it was pissing sides ways and waked up to Muir or other high camps and had fine conditions the next day.

As for a wind shirt vs a parka. I personally prefer not to have clothes in my pack that stay there. A parka is multi-functional a wind shirt is not so IMHO it is just extra weight (albeit very little).

Allen Sanderson wrote: Obviously you have not been on routes where going up and over is the preferred option. Even when shit hits the fan. Also several times on Rainier I have left Paradise when it was pissing sides ways and waked up to Muir or other high camps and had fine conditions the next day. As for a wind shirt vs a parka. I personally prefer not to have clothes in my pack that stay there. A parka is multi-functional a wind shirt is not so IMHO it is just extra weight (albeit very little).

I live 2 hours from the mountain, it's not a destination and I am lucky enough to be able to cherry pick good weather windows. Of the common routes it's damn easy to bail from your bivy on kautz or ptarmigan, lib ridge is the only one that going up is virtually required.

No waterproof membrane transfers moisture fast enough to be of much use under high exertion. If you're someone who runs quite cold or is moving slow in a guided group they may still be great for you on normal days. My windshirts see hundreds of days of use per year, my waterproof jackets are really only used on the way down ski touring and training hikes in shit weather. YMMV

Nick Drake wrote: lib ridge is the only one that going up is virtually required.

As I said obviously you have not been on routes where going up and over is the preferred option.

JasonSH wrote:I also would like to mitigate the amount of sweat my layers underneath end up being soaked with when all is said and done.

Be aware that the ability of a hard shell to deal with perspiration is also a function of the humidity (or humidity differential) between the interior and the exterior. If it's super humid outside the shell (such as in a heavy rainstorm), I don't believe breathability helps much because the air outside is fully saturated anyway.

However, to be clear, I am not in the "don't buy a hardshell" camp; I own a hardshell and I am very happy to have it in the right circumstances.

While I agree with Allen that there are circumstances that continuing up and over is the best option, I think it's a red herring in this discussion as the OP is going to Rainier for the first time and has never been above 6k feet, and as such I expect that they will be climbing a route where bailing in bad weather is a viable option.

I carry a proper hardshell in conditions where I expect to be working hard for extended periods of time in cool/cold wet weather. If the forecast is good but I want to be safe, I just carry a superlight rain jacket (like an OR Helium). This is the jacket I bring when I don't expect it to come out of the pack.

In addition to one of these jackets, I usually also have either a softshell (colder weather, abrasive environment) or a windshirt (traveling light, no abrasion). These are much more breathable protection against wind and light precip.

Allen Sanderson wrote: As I said obviously you have not been on routes where going up and over is the preferred option.

Are you referencing west routes which are very few parties set as objectives since the road washed out.
Or are you saying that ptarmigan and kautz require you to continue before you reach your bivy? Because if so, it's obvious that you've never been on either approach and are talking out of your ass.

Nick,... Allen,...

Please keep it civilized. I know you're both trying to help by passing along the knowledge you've both acquired along the way, in your own worlds with your own unique experiences each of you have had.

I'm sure you're both good guys and I'd be more than happy to hike/climb with either one of you, but, honestly, lets take it down a few notches.

Thanks to both of you, its much appreciated you both weighing in and others as well.

Kyle Tarry wrote: I carry a proper hardshell in conditions where I expect to be working hard for extended periods of time in cool/cold wet weather. If the forecast is good but I want to be safe, I just carry a superlight rain jacket (like an OR Helium).

A bit off topic I suppose, but what would you carry/bring while out ice climbing?..hardshell??...or??

Nick Drake wrote: Are you referencing west routes which are very few parties set as objectives since the road washed out. Or are you saying that ptarmigan and kautz require you to continue before you reach your bivy? Because if so, it's obvious that you've never been on either approach and are talking out of your ass.

Take step back Nick as you are the one talking out yer butt. I have done the major routes from Curtis around to Mowich. Including an attempt on the Willis in winter by walking from the Carbon River Ranger Station. And for several of those routes while we started out with descent weather once after the difficulties and near the summit have been forced to hunker down. Retreating down the routes was not an option. In one case we took in part of group from Liberty that were not prepared for the pissing sideways. Then we got to watch another party screw the pooch and get rescued by not asking for help after a crevasse fall. I have seen the same on the south of the hill. This experience is in sharp contrast to heading to high camp and turning tail when the weather looks bad and keeping yer parka in yer pack.

Jason, apologizes for getting your thread sides ways. IMHO if you are going up regardless of the route one needs to be prepared for when you are up high and things go to shit and you may not be able to easily turn tail. Just ask the guys who recently spent the night on the summit after doing the DC.

JasonSH wrote: A bit off topic I suppose, but what would you carry/bring while out ice climbing?..hardshell??...or??

If it going to be be dripping a hard-shell. If not a soft-shell. Of course sometimes ya think it will not be dripping and ya get the soft-shell soaked. But then again if just for the day that is when the belay parka comes in handy.

Allen Sanderson wrote: ...one needs to be prepared for when you are up high and things go to shit and you may not be able to easily turn tail. Just ask the guys who recently spent the night on the summit after doing the DC.

Who got caught up on the summit? Wouldn't be the REI group from the Philly PA area would it? I know an acquaintance of mine was headed up about a week ago with a group from REI, not sure if they got back yet or not?

Allen Sanderson wrote: If it going to be be dripping a hard-shell. If not a soft-shell. Of course sometimes ya think it will not be dripping and ya get the soft-shell soaked. But then again if just for the day that is when the belay parka comes in handy.

What parka do you use for your belay parka?

JasonSH wrote: What parka do you use for your belay parka?

I have one made by Wild Things that uses PrimaLoft. Unfortunately, they only make a military version now. Many like the Patagucci DAS Parka. There are others.

JasonSH wrote:Who got caught up on the summit?

Here is the link to the guys who spend the night out: mountainproject.com/v/dropp…

Allen Sanderson wrote: I have one made by Wild Things that uses PrimaLoft. Unfortunately, they only make a military version now. Many like the Patagucci DAS Parka. There are others.

yeah,..no deals to be found right now on those DAS parkas that I've seen! HA!

So you think I'd be better off just picking up an OR Helium II instead of anything hardcore hardshell like the OR Axiom? Quite honestly I'd be perfectly happy if that were the case and I'd go helium and save my coin to put towards a parka...just curious.

JasonSH wrote: yeah,..no deals to be found right now on those DAS parkas that I've seen! HA! So you think I'd be better off just picking up an OR Helium II instead of anything hardcore hardshell like the OR Axiom? Quite honestly I'd be perfectly happy if that were the case and I'd go helium and save my coin to put towards a parka...just curious.

If you are serious about May you want a hardcore parka not the OR Helium jacket. To be honest I have not looked at what is being made these days. My suggestion is to look for a parka with pit zips perhaps something like the Patagonia Powder Bowl ????